Duo-Sonic: Compensated Saddles Found!!!

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:40 pm

Greetings And Salutations Fellow Earthlings,

For my first post I wanted to spread a little tidbit of gold to any Fender Squier Classic Vibe Duo-Sonic owners, regarding the saddles that come with it stock, which are not compensated, thus rendering your Duo-Sonic impossible to properly intonate. I dug around on the internet for nearly a year before I came across these which fit the Duo-Sonic PERFECTLY:

http://www.glendaleguitars.com/saddles.htm
(Groovy Little 60's Intone Set)

The key to why these work whereas most others don't is, the saddle barrel diameter is 1/4", rather than 5/16" like those for Tele's.
Again, if you want to get compensated saddles for your Duo-Sonic, they must be QUARTER INCH. So you don't need to replace the whole bridge, nor do you need to endure less than perfect intonation for another second.

So if there's anyone out there who loves their Duo-Sonic, but the saddles issue leaves something to be desired, upgrade it with a set of 1/4" compensated saddles. I installed mine without taking the strings off, took me less than 10 minutes. Do your Duo-Sonic a favor and get it rocking. Intonation is instant and perfect.

ENJOY!!!

mkt3000 · Post by **mkt3000** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:44 pm

Hmm.. the wilkinson compensated tele saddles worked pretty well for me.

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:45 pm

I tried those too, but at 5/16" the strings sat about a mile off the fretboard, which is why I'm preaching the 1/4" sermon.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:10 pm

A little expensive, but nice to know!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:13 pm

Cymbaline wrote:I tried those too, but at 5/16" the strings sat about a mile off the fretboard, which is why I'm preaching the 1/4" sermon.

Hhrrrrmmm well by sheer coincidence I just slammed a set of wilkinsons on a squier duo last night and as is my wont it's SUPER slinky to the fretboard with no buzz and no shimming. Maybe there is differences in models.....

Incidentally I discovered that the best intonation for D and G string was to flip the saddle over to do away with the compensated gubbins. Onthe outer pairs though the intonation was much better with it.

EDIT: I'm calling outright bullshit on this info and also spammmmmmmmmm. L@@K http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... 15&t=66340

Are you affiliated with this company per chance?

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:28 pm

When I put the set of Wilkinson's on, the little in-barrel screws which adjust how high the saddle sits off the bridge, could not be lowered (thus raising the saddle) AT ALL, or else the strings would sit ridiculously high off the neck. But when I installed 1/4" saddles, adjusted the little screws like they should be, it all came together perfectly.

Like I said I got the Glendale "Groovy Little 60's" 1/4" ones, so I can't make any claims for any other brands, but 5/16" barrel diameter is just too big. The ones that come stock with the guitar are definitely 1/4".

The Glendale ones are NON-ADJUSTABLE, they are set at a precise angle and only touch at the edges which are angled. So the guitar is set permanently intonated.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:32 pm

Cymbaline wrote:When I put the set of Wilkinson's on, the little in-barrel screws which adjust how high the saddle sits off the bridge, could not be raised AT ALL, or else the strings would sit ridiculously high off the neck. But when I installed 1/4" saddles, adjusted the little screws like they should be, it all came together perfectly.

Like I said I got the Glendale "Groovy Little 60's" 1/4" ones, so I can't make any claims for any other brands, but 5/16" barrel diameter is just too big. The ones that come stock with the guitar are definitely 1/4".

The Glendale ones are NON-ADJUSTABLE, they are set at a precise angle and only touch at the edges which are angled. So the guitar is set permanently intonated.

I'm calling outright bullshit on this info, because that is simply NOT TRUE by my first hand experience within the last 24 hours and also spammmmmmmmmm. L@@K http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... 15&t=66340

Maybe you are just super happy and spreading the word but fess up: Are you affiliated with this company per chance?

EDIT: The only downside is hat the action set low does leave a lot of screw above the saddle which I will grind down to suit my anal retentiveness BUT the action is perfectly doable low and slinky with the Wilkinsons on a Squier duo at least.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:35 pm

Saddle screws are easy to find anyway. You can find a box of 25 M3 set screws for like $6 on Amazon all day, in whatever size you want, too.

Also, if your action doesn't go low enough, it's easy to shim the neck with a thin pick. Now you should be golden.

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:18 pm

YES, I posted that at fender too. I'm going around spreading this information anywhere where it may be seen by Duo-Sonic owners. Go to Musiciansfriend.com too and you'll see I posted a review there. Does that mean I'm spamming and or full of shit, or does it mean I'm trying to HELP other people who own Duo-Sonics get their guitars intonated, because it was such a pain in the ass for me to find the solution myself, because nowhere else on the internet has anyone come out and said, hey, here's the exact product that fixed the problem. Duo Sonics aren't a common guitar, they have a proprietary bridge, so this information was not easy to come by, and I'm kind enough to share it with other people who might benefit.

And NO, I'm not affiliated with Glendale. I searched for an entire year for a solution to this, and thought other Duo Sonic owners would like a direct, easy answer on how to get their guitar intonated, instead of spending lots of time dicking around and not having any clear concise answers on which saddles would work for this guitar. There aren't any replacement bridges that will fit this guitar. This is a testimonial from someone who tried other options that did not work, and I'm telling everyone what option did work.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:07 pm

Ahh Cymbeline, don't take it to heart, on consideration I take your word for it. Whilst I will say that my findings are not in accord with your own, at least in regards to a Squier/mim duo, I'm happy to admit I have not ever put wilkinsons on a CV Duo so cannot dismiss your info based on that fact alone. I DO remain skeptical about that but again if I were able to spunk any money I liked I'd likely go for the same saddles you chose over the wilks.

Stick around, be interesting to see some pics of your guitar and further contributions to the forum too. And welcome

DGNR8 · Post by **DGNR8** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:33 am

That is good to know about. I don't need any at the moment.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:43 am

Michael Mcbride of Giant Guitars (ebay handle "giantguitars")makes compensated brass saddles in his shop in Charlotte, North Carolina. Mostly he gets mentioned for telecaster saddles, but he makes them for original Musicmasters / Duo-sonics too. Don't know about whether these would work for the re-issue Duo-sonics though.

Here is an old out-date link:
http://web.archive.org/web/200711130232 ... ddles.html

I have a set. But I haven't yet gotten around to put them on my Musicmaster II, I've been playing my CP Jaguar all the time since I got it.

robroe · Post by **robroe** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:16 am

people used to think i worked at the rumble seat 10 years ago too because i always posted photos from that shop.

over time people just started to understand that they take the best photos of old shit

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:05 pm

I've got a set of these...

http://store.rsguitarworks.net/nBRSRSCOMPTL.html

and also a set of these...

http://www.wdmusic.com/compensated_tele ... brass.html

Ten to twelve bucks per set (WD also sells them in aluminum and steel), and as far as I can tell, the two brass saddle sets are identical. They work with your existing Musicmaster or Duo Sonic II bridge screws, and their height is perfect - and fully adjustable - even when using them on a Duo Sonic. How do I know?

► Show Spoiler

IMHO, there's no need to spend more than ten or twelve bucks to get compensated saddles and greatly improved intonation for your Musicmaster or Duo Sonic.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:39 pm

Phil O'Keefe wrote: They work with your existing Musicmaster or Duo Sonic II bridge screws, ..

That's surprising to me, since the tele bridge screws are bigger than DS II bridge screws. But you say it works, so that's great. It avoids the problem of trying to use the tele screws, which I've read won't fit through the saddle screw adjustment holes on the DSII bridge plate, unless you widen the holes.

That, and some other attempts at DSII intonation, are here:
http://www.marcelroy.com/mods/bridge/bridge.html

Another thing, since the tele scale length is longer than DSII scale length, it occurred to me that their respective saddle angles for optimal intonation might be slightly different. In which case one might prefer to use saddles made specifically for a short scale guitar over saddles made for a tele, to ensure that the appropriate intonation adjustment can be achieved. I assumed these two factors, thinner screws and slighly different adjustment requirements, were why Mcbride came out with a separate product for MS/DS instead if just saying his tele set was also the product of choice for MS/DS.

But that's just what I conjectured, I've no idea really.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:22 pm

I just reviewed that old marcelroy webpage I linked above, and noticed he said, regarding the solid tele brass saddles,
"you will probably have to file small grooves into the top of the saddle for use in a MM/DS."

Did those of you who are using brass saddles find this to be the case, or that you find that your strings are moving around laterally along the saddle?

The "groovy 60s" product has notched saddles just like the originals, so it would not have this issue obviously.

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:46 pm

MMPicker wrote: The "groovy 60s" product has notched saddles just like the originals, so it would not have this issue obviously.

I got the Groovy LITTLE 60's, as stated above, since they are 1/4", and the same color as the original saddles. They don't have notches though.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Cymbaline wrote: I got the Groovy LITTLE 60's, as stated above, since they are 1/4", and the same color as the original saddles. They don't have notches though.

ok then, same question to you: do your strings slide around on the saddle?
And do you find your intonation could be adjusted to be "spot on", even though the saddles you bought are intended for a long-scale telecaster whereas you have a short scale guitar?

Though I think you said you have the reissue DS, which IIRC has a conversion neck unlike the originals. A conversion neck can be direct-swapped for a long scale neck. Maybe the bridge placement of guitars that take conversion necks resolves potential intonation issues arising from using a product designed for a long-scale neck? Whereas those issues would not necessarily be resolved with the original "true" 24" scale DSII/MSII guitars, whose bridges are not located at the same distance as bridges of telecasters??

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:36 pm

Cymbaline, glad to see you still posting, thought I'd gone a bit overboard on you no doubt aided by copious red wine.

I get a little slide about with the wilks if I do a heavy bend but it doesn't cause a huge issue. I might put little slots in but not until I finalise the neck for it as I may swap it out for a jagmaster conversion, or possibly practice a full refret and re-radius to 2,25 on the original neck... I figure any further bridge stuff should be done once the rest of the guitar is 'set'.

Cymbaline · Post by **Cymbaline** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:54 pm

Dave wrote:Cymbaline, glad to see you still posting, thought I'd gone a bit overboard on you no doubt aided by copious red wine.

Apology accepted, I too am guilty of going off on internet tirades when I've knocked back a bottle of cabernet. Except mine were all on facebook, which I have since deleted because it's unilaterally useless and a waste of time.

MMPicker wrote: ok then, same question to you: do your strings slide around on the saddle?
And do you find your intonation could be adjusted to be "spot on", even though the saddles you bought are intended for a long-scale telecaster whereas you have a short scale guitar?

I'm no physics guru, but are you saying that the angles of the saddles on a 3-barrel system for a 25.5" neck vs. a 24" neck would be different enough so as to mess up the intonation for saddles intended for a fullscale guitar but placed on a short scale guitar? Because when I put the 1/4" Groovy Little 60's saddles on, the intonation was immediate and perfect. I was kind of shocked in all honesty that it was that easy. I haven't had any issues with the strings sliding around either. All seems to be well. I guess the only drawback to these saddles is, if I put the guitar in an alternate tuning, I wouldn't be able to intonate it for that tuning, because its now permanently intonated for standard tuning. But thats better than never intonated at all, as with the stock saddles.