I've never heard a nice acoustic piezo sound EVER

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 29, 2012 3:26 pm

Not once. Glassy and nasty every single damn time I see some dude and his guitar strumming away through one. Something about it sets my teeth on edge - quite the oposite to a natural acoustic tone. I must be wrong surely? I did see Tommy Emmanuel once actually and his tone sounded pretty organic... Or is it the prediliction for too much reverb?

Seriously though do most piezo pips suck or something? Are there not better ways to represent the real acoustic tone?

I know little about acoustics as they are terribly terribly boring to look at and think about, though nice to play of course.

Give me answers. I do not want to ever hear that horrible glassy piezo tone ever again. I hate it. End my suffering with SCIENCE.

MISSINGNO. · Post by **MISSINGNO.** » Tue May 29, 2012 3:34 pm

From what I've seen, the best results are usually using a modeling system pedal in conjunction with the piezo pickup. While I agree, they sound terrible on their own, through the right 'imaging' pedal (or whatever they're being called) acoustics can sound downright incredible plugged in.

See: Fishman Aura System and other comparisons.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue May 29, 2012 4:26 pm

I think alot of it also has to do with people knowing how to EQ acoustics.

Way too many times they are EQ'd too bright/thin as well as too much effects added.

Personally I have no issues with the tone I get out of my Takamine EF340SCGN guitar with the pickup that comes in it (it is the mid to high level Takamine pickup)....

I HATE the Taylor expression system. I think it does not do the guitar any favors.

Most Fishman systems are pretty solid so if they are put into a nice guitar and EQ'd correctly then they are good to go.

Your lower end guitars with Piezos tend to amplify the lower end characteristics of that specific guitar. They still may be able to be dialed in OK and may osund fine in a band mix, but recording, or playing solo in a very tight room and they are hard to get right.

It all depends though. First off, it has to be in a great sounding guitar. That is the bottom line. Just like an electric, if you amplify shit pups, they just sound like louder shit. If the guitar tone is thin and weak, the amplified tone will have to be super EQ'd to not sound the same.

Personally, give me a satin finished, cedar topped, dreadnought style guitar with a GOOD piezo system and that is about as good ana coustic tone through a PA as you are going to get live..... Mic'ing an acoustic for live play is just too complicated and tends not to work very well.

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:03 pm

My solution to bad acoustic sounds is to not play an acoustic. Then you don't have to deal with trying to amplify it in a way that doesn't just add to the cunt-reflection of actually pulling an acoustic guitar out on stage in the first place. I might sound unforgiving on this subject. I am. I long ago began observing a rule that was to turn around and leave any "live music" bar in which a lone musician/singer as part of a band plays an acoustic guitar. I believe this might have resulted in having missed out on one or two decent gigs. Which is a shame.

At the same time, I've seen a few very, very, very good gigs consisting of a single guy/girl with an electric guitar. Or a keyboard. So to sound less like a cunt, my advice is to not play an acoustic and instead play an electric or a keyboard. Acoustic guitars might have made sense before the advent of electricity but now it feels like the equivalent of using candles with copper wire in them to add lighting effects to a live show instead of, y'know, spotlights.

Above all else, it's cheaper. Rather than going through the unbelievably tedious and expensive world of decent-sounding amplified acoustics, you could get yourself a decent electric setup cheaper and play the same shit on it with less hassle. Even if you spend the cash and get a good'un, some cunt of a sound guy is going to come along and shit on your face, half through malice, half through utter incompetence.

Be brave.

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mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:07 pm

LOL.

I rarely ever play electric. Funny enough, alot of times when I see a 4 piece band playing covers or fairly straight forward blues/rock with 2 guitarists I think to myself, this would sound better if that dude who obvisouly isn't the lead player was just laying some acoustic down in the background... One of the things that keeps my "band" busy is that by having an acoustic in the mix it gives the band a full sound while not getting overly loud and we don't have 2 amplified guitar players fighting each other over volume and tonal space.

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:42 pm

mickie08 wrote:LOL.

I rarely ever play electric. Funny enough, alot of times when I see a 4 piece band playing covers or fairly straight forward blues/rock with 2 guitarists I think to myself, this would sound better if that dude who obvisouly isn't the lead player was just laying some acoustic down in the background... One of the things that keeps my "band" busy is that by having an acoustic in the mix it gives the band a full sound while not getting overly loud and we don't have 2 amplified guitar players fighting each other over volume and tonal space.

Actually, the shrill, crappy sound of a cheaply amplified acoustic can sometimes be rounded out nicely when plopped in the mix with a full band. I'm not totally averse to them, I just don't like playing them myself and feel they've become emblematic of a resurgence of bland, identi-kit "cool" bands. It's lazy. I've known some excellent solo acoustic players, but the absolute vast majority are just shite, and only a single step below Ed Sheeran or Adele, ie: everything that is wrong with music, when "carefully orchestrated" somehow ends up meaning "genuinely heartfelt".

Ben79 · Post by **Ben79** » Tue May 29, 2012 7:10 pm

I think this image saturated post modern capitalist dream world we're living in has provoked some kind of reactionary lunge toward the bearded man plus acoustic guitar as aspirational icon of artistic authenticity. But for anyone to become 'succesful' they'll have to get packaged and marketed and radio played just like any other pop shit and so inevitably are rendered part of the machine. Is this what killed Cobain? Apart from Carlsson's shotgun of course.

And I agree with you Dave, always hated the sound of a plugged in acoustic, plasticky, clicky mess. Surely a mic is better?

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:45 am

One thing I find interesting about the piezo saddle sound is that while it is too compressed and tight to mimic an acoustic sound well, it IS indelibly associated with an "acoustic guitar" sound now from people using them long enough, to the extent that those fishman piezo strat/tele/LP bridges are used by people for their "acoustic" parts at the flick of a switch on their electric (Pete Townshend uses one in a Strat for Pinball Wizard, Black Francis has one built into a Tele he'll play for an entire set). I mean, you couldn't get any less acoustic by the time you're playing a piezo'd Fender solidbody with a little amp inside, but when that sound comes out in a live situation, you think acoustic.

I wanted one of those old DeArmond soundhole pickups like Lightnin' Hopkins and David Bowie used to use but I stopped looking for one because I realized I'd never use it, it was just something I wanted for mojo.

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Sloan · Post by **Sloan** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:36 am

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laterallateral · Post by **laterallateral** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:06 am

Honestly, would it not be cost effective to just discreetly mount a half decent condenser mic inside the soundhole with a small preamp and power supply?

(genuine question, I have no real opinion about the performance of piezos on acoustics.)