Trem Wars

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:22 pm

I have been wanting to learn how to effectly use the "reverb" handles on my guitars. I am mostly a rhythm player, so I just never bothered with them. Last night, I played all my guitars with Tremolos except for my Coronado II (missing "reverb" handle). I played the same song each time, used the bridge pickup, and played them in to the same amp settings on Amplitube on my iPad.

My guitars were setup like so:

Fender CompStang RI (setup with 12s and Lace Sensor Red in Bridge)
Fender Mullet-stang(setup with 11s)
Fender Bronco (setup with .10s)
Fender AVRI Jaguar (Setup with .11s)

Observations:
1)The Fender Bronco was more responsive and effective for quick wobbles than either Mustang guitar. The Bronco trem has a more limited range. Bronco kept it's tune very well. The modified Strat arm that came with the guitar sits in the perfect location for quick access but doesn't get in the way of strumming.
2) Both Mustangs were better for smoother, deeper dives than the Bronco. The Compstang with the heavier strings was better suited for quick wobbles than the Mullet-stang with .11s. The trem arm slowly slips down and dangles after a few uses.
3) Jaguar has the smoothest, most versatile tremolo. You can do the suble and deep dives and it stays in tune. The arms stays in place at first, but also drops down after some use.

The Bronco Trem is kinda a hybrid between the Mustang and Jaguar Trems. It has the saddles and trim in one unit like the Mustang, but the single spring design of the Bronco mimics the Jaguar. The Bronco was Leo Fender's last tremolo he designed before he left Fender, but it wasn't used until the Bronco was released in 1967.

Overall, I like all 3 trems. The Jaguar is definitely the best overall, but the Mustang has some definite advantages with the two spring design for even deep dives. The Bronco is great for quick trem, but not as good for the deeper dive bombs.

Post your experiences with your Shortscale trems.

George · Post by **George** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:53 pm

For being able to play with broken strings, alt-tunings and offering the nicest action and stability: Jaguar Ã¼ber alles.

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:31 pm

I can't really speak much for the Mustang or Bronco, but I love my Jaguar trem. It's very smooth and stays in tune without any problems. The only thing I don't like is the trem arm. To me, I feels like it sits too high. Maybe it's the way I use it when I play, but I feel like it should be a lot lower than it is. I like to be able to hold it while I'm strumming. I've been thinking about bending it so that it will be easier to use when I'm playing it.

As for the trem arm staying in place, I recently bought a stay-trem, but I haven't had a chance to install it yet. It seems like a great idea, so I can't wait to try it out.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:49 pm

George wrote:For being able to play with broken strings, alt-tunings and offering the nicest action and stability: Jaguar Ã¼ber alles.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:52 pm

paul_ wrote:
George wrote:For being able to play with broken strings, alt-tunings and offering the nicest action and stability: Jaguar Ã¼ber alles.

jcyphe · Post by **jcyphe** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:57 pm

REVERB HANDLE

NoisemakerEffects · Post by **NoisemakerEffects** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:48 pm

jcyphe wrote:REVERB HANDLE

For me, the Jag trem is the best trem. I like Bigsby's on Jags too though.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:04 pm

dren68 wrote:I can't really speak much for the Mustang or Bronco, but I love my Jaguar trem. It's very smooth and stays in tune without any problems. The only thing I don't like is the trem arm. To me, I feels like it sits too high. Maybe it's the way I use it when I play, but I feel like it should be a lot lower than it is. I like to be able to hold it while I'm strumming. I've been thinking about bending it so that it will be easier to use when I'm playing it.

As for the trem arm staying in place, I recently bought a stay-trem, but I haven't had a chance to install it yet. It seems like a great idea, so I can't wait to try it out.

Since you are getting a Stay-trem it may not matter, but make sure you are pushing the trem arm all the way in until it "snaps". I had the same problem because I was not putting it in all the way.

I plan to get a Stay-trem for my upcoming Jazzmaster project.

Johnny Noir · Post by **Johnny Noir** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:19 pm

i agree with you.
i don't know why i prefered the bronco trem

but i sold that bronco.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:20 pm

taylornutt wrote:
dren68 wrote:I can't really speak much for the Mustang or Bronco, but I love my Jaguar trem. It's very smooth and stays in tune without any problems. The only thing I don't like is the trem arm. To me, I feels like it sits too high. Maybe it's the way I use it when I play, but I feel like it should be a lot lower than it is. I like to be able to hold it while I'm strumming. I've been thinking about bending it so that it will be easier to use when I'm playing it.
make sure you are pushing the trem arm all the way in until it "snaps". .

Yeah I second Taylor's suggestion, dren... my CIJ Jag's arm is very comfy to hold while playing, it's even long enough that I can pick anywhere I want (I usually play over the neck pickup when holding it). And if anything it's TOO low on occasion, interfered with the buzzstop when I had that installed... I've never been one to fiddle with the inner workings of the Jag tailpiece much though, it just sorta always worked for me wherever it was... things can slip on the Japanese ones though and there's a couple decades of good fix-it tips on the net to help you out with almost any probs.

There was this guy in the old days of JS that had his shortie trems set-up really rock solid (with .009s)

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Mad-Mike!! He is a great player and knew how to get 110% from a Mustang trem.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:35 pm

^^ Hahaha! Haven't seen one of his videos in ages. What a dude

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:58 pm

Fran wrote:Mad-Mike!! He is a great player and knew how to get 110% from a Mustang trem.

I am subscribed to him on Youtube. I have conversed with him a few times, once about Mustang Trem height.

I love pretty much all his main guitars, especially his homemade Jazzmaster and his vintage Mustang. I kinda like how he goes through the background of all his gear.

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:01 pm

This guy is great

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:55 pm

taylornutt wrote:
dren68 wrote:I can't really speak much for the Mustang or Bronco, but I love my Jaguar trem. It's very smooth and stays in tune without any problems. The only thing I don't like is the trem arm. To me, I feels like it sits too high. Maybe it's the way I use it when I play, but I feel like it should be a lot lower than it is. I like to be able to hold it while I'm strumming. I've been thinking about bending it so that it will be easier to use when I'm playing it.

As for the trem arm staying in place, I recently bought a stay-trem, but I haven't had a chance to install it yet. It seems like a great idea, so I can't wait to try it out.
Since you are getting a Stay-trem it may not matter, but make sure you are pushing the trem arm all the way in until it "snaps". I had the same problem because I was not putting it in all the way.

I plan to get a Stay-trem for my upcoming Jazzmaster project.

Yeah, I think that may be the problem. I'm always scared to push too hard because I think I'm going to break something for some reason. I'll try not to be such a wuss with it and maybe that will do the trick.

George · Post by **George** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:59 pm

Can someone please post a picture of how far in the trem arm should be?

I'm pushing in hard but no snap. Wondering if the screw needs to be tightened.

EDIT: On a Staytrem I mean.

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:59 pm

paul_ wrote:
taylornutt wrote:
dren68 wrote:I can't really speak much for the Mustang or Bronco, but I love my Jaguar trem. It's very smooth and stays in tune without any problems. The only thing I don't like is the trem arm. To me, I feels like it sits too high. Maybe it's the way I use it when I play, but I feel like it should be a lot lower than it is. I like to be able to hold it while I'm strumming. I've been thinking about bending it so that it will be easier to use when I'm playing it.
make sure you are pushing the trem arm all the way in until it "snaps". .
Yeah I second Taylor's suggestion, dren... my CIJ Jag's arm is very comfy to hold while playing, it's even long enough that I can pick anywhere I want (I usually play over the neck pickup when holding it). And if anything it's TOO low on occasion, interfered with the buzzstop when I had that installed... I've never been one to fiddle with the inner workings of the Jag tailpiece much though, it just sorta always worked for me wherever it was... things can slip on the Japanese ones though and there's a couple decades of good fix-it tips on the net to help you out with almost any probs.

There was this guy in the old days of JS that had his shortie trems set-up really rock solid (with .009s)

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

Wow, that guy can shred. I've never heard VH played on a Jaguar.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:59 pm

Dave wrote:This guy is great

He used to post on Shortscale actually.

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:11 am

I have to say that guy's Jag vid is almost enough to make me want one of my own...I'm not a shredder by any stretch, but it's a great advert for how versatile Jazzes and Jags can be. Given how over-engineered the design is in the rocking bridge and length of the arm, maybe I shouldn't be so surprised at the range of pitch change.

Honestly, I've not had any issue with my JM's trem at all either. When it's properly adjusted (which, I admit, takes some investment of time and effort initially) the tuning stability is perfectly fine, and I also like the 'gentler' action.

I'm still not convinced by the Mustang trem though. The steeper string break angle between the bridge and tailpice makes me constantly worried about the bridge staying upright; it seems to want to tip away from the tailpiece and mess with the intonation. Maybe need a bit more time to get used to it.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:39 pm

I like Mad Mikes view on the Mustang trem, basically that string gauges were much higher when they were designed so the tension is actually too high on the stock setup when using modern string gauges, meaning that by attempting to make it more stable by increasing the tension while making it more stable than the middle tension setting you're probably sacrificing the functionality of the trem unit.

Could 11s and the spring on the lowest tension be the key to having a perfectly set-up Mustang? I might give it a try next time I swap out the strings on mine.

I think in Mikes video he says he removed one of the springs in his trem all together cos it seized up or something...