Questions about Mustang/Duo/MM necks

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:10 am

MatthewK wrote:Over the weekend I will take out a screw from the 78 MM and a screw from the MIJ Jag to compare.
In the meantime the 1970s scanned MM parts list I got from Offset specifies the neck screw as an oval head Philips, #5 x 1 3/4 STL, nickel plated. So a 1 and 3/4 inch #5 screw. The MIJ screw may have a metric thread I guess.

Cool, thanks! I appreciate that. I'm assuming the Fender neck screws you can buy now would still be the same size then, right? That makes sense that the MIJ might be metric. I guess I could just get those at a hardware store if I need to do that.

MattK · Post by **MattK** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:56 am

It may be that attaching a "foreign" neck is better achieved by dowelling the existing screw holes using thin hardwood dowels, or round chopsticks at a pinch, and a drill bit about the same size as the existing screw hole to clear the holes smooth, glue in bits of dowel to fill the holes and cut off the ends when the glue is dry. Then place new holes exactly where you want them: line up the neck exactly on the body by running a high E and a low E from the nut to the bridge, shift the neck heel around until they have the same inset from the fretboard edge at the join between neck and body.
Once that is perfect, you hold it in place while you put screws through the body holes so that they touch the underside of the neck, and give it a tap so that the screw points mark where the holes should go for the neck to be well aligned. Then carefully drill new holes in the neck heel in precisely the right locations (essential to use the correct drill size here, maple will crack almost-irreparably if a screw splits it). It gives you a head start on setup because the neck is aligned perfectly to start with, and you can use whatever screws you like.
Apologies if the detail is too much here - I thought I would sketch the process so that anyone starting from scratch could figure it out if they find this thread.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:13 am

Most 70s necks are going to be thicker. The later in the 70s, the thicker.

If you want thin, get a jagstang, but it was too small for me. My vista jagmaster is the perfect compromise between the jagstang and my jaguar.

MattK · Post by **MattK** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:35 am

I think your thick 70s neck and my thick 70s neck are the same guitar though, right?
Glad you didn't like it because I love it!

singlepup · Post by **singlepup** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:29 am

taylornutt wrote:There is a lot of inconsistency in terms of profiles during this time period.

Right. My 1976 MusicMaster neck is fairly thin, like RI Mustang thin.

dren68 wrote:Okay, then. Good to know. It's strange that there would be such inconsistency. Is that typical of Fender back then?

I'd say so. The late 70's was a spotty period for Fender in terms of QC by most accounts. End of the CBS era.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:47 am

hotrodperlmutter wrote:Most 70s necks are going to be thicker. The later in the 70s, the thicker.

This is the total opposite of all the 70s ones I've had and I've had a lot. All the earlier Music master (with the space in the name) have been way chunkier than my late 70s ones. Same deal with my Broncos. To the extent that if I were doing another 24" build I'd avoid early/mid 70s ones at all costs.

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:15 pm

MatthewK wrote:It may be that attaching a "foreign" neck is better achieved by dowelling the existing screw holes using thin hardwood dowels, or round chopsticks at a pinch, and a drill bit about the same size as the existing screw hole to clear the holes smooth, glue in bits of dowel to fill the holes and cut off the ends when the glue is dry. Then place new holes exactly where you want them: line up the neck exactly on the body by running a high E and a low E from the nut to the bridge, shift the neck heel around until they have the same inset from the fretboard edge at the join between neck and body.
Once that is perfect, you hold it in place while you put screws through the body holes so that they touch the underside of the neck, and give it a tap so that the screw points mark where the holes should go for the neck to be well aligned. Then carefully drill new holes in the neck heel in precisely the right locations (essential to use the correct drill size here, maple will crack almost-irreparably if a screw splits it). It gives you a head start on setup because the neck is aligned perfectly to start with, and you can use whatever screws you like.
Apologies if the detail is too much here - I thought I would sketch the process so that anyone starting from scratch could figure it out if they find this thread.

I'm not sure I want to do anything like that. I'd rather use the neck as it is rather than have to modify it. I'm not much of a woodworker/luthier. If I were to use a MIJ neck, I'd rather just get a MIJ body or just have a body built for it.

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:18 pm

On the Jag-Stang necks, are all versions the same thickness/profile. I just noticed that they were reissued from 2003-2005.

Post by **Mike** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:24 pm

Thomas wrote:
hotrodperlmutter wrote:Most 70s necks are going to be thicker. The later in the 70s, the thicker.
This is the total opposite of all the 70s ones I've had and I've had a lot. All the earlier Music master (with the space in the name) have been way chunkier than my late 70s ones. Same deal with my Broncos. To the extent that if I were doing another 24" build I'd avoid early/mid 70s ones at all costs.

I have a '72 Competiton Mustang. it's a baseball bat.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:57 am

I believe in the early '70s they chunked out the necks trying to make 'em more rawk-ous. All of the reissue '70s Strat necks I've played with the bullet truss are pretty fat compared to a '60s RI, I think they call it the D profile. The Tele Deluxe neck was pretty thick too. I've played some MMs and Duos from the mid 70s that were much thicker-necked than I'm used to on a shortscale (even on the 65RI Mustangs, which are substantially thicker feeling than my JS, it's a very nice kind of chunky neck versus a big ol' fat one).

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:10 am

I've got a few different 24" Fender necks. My '75 Music Master is tiny. Super slim from the center of the fingerboard to the back of the neck. My '94 MIJ Mustang neck is nearly as shallow. Both are "B" width necks (1 5/8" wide at the nut) and have a "C" shaped neck profile with slim shoulders. I have a late '65 neck that's a baseball bat. Definitely thicker and chunkier than I prefer, with more of a "U" profile and thick shoulders. Finally, my '71 is in-between - it's a bit thicker on the corners of the neck (the shoulders), but it's not quite as thick as the '65, but not as shallow as the '94 and '75 are. In other words, the '71 feels like your fairly common, typical Fender neck, the '65 feels really thick, and the other two feel thin.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:18 am

you don't need to apologize for asking questions: that's what we're for.

Ultimately, if you're looking for a certain size neck, forget about it. When dealing with vintage Fenders, the necks varies a ton not only from year to year but from neck to neck. The best thing you can do is ask the seller how thick it is etc, because you're not going to find any real standard when it comes to vintage necks.

Now, the CIJ/MIJ shortscale necks should be a little more consistent, but I don't have much experience with those.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:18 pm

I played a vintage 1966 Mustang at Guitar Center the other day. One of the thickest guitar necks I have ever played. I have never played a Mustang with a neck that thick before. It was thicker than my old Airline Acoustic guitar.

dren68 · Post by **dren68** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:04 pm

SKC Willie wrote:you don't need to apologize for asking questions: that's what we're for.

Ultimately, if you're looking for a certain size neck, forget about it. When dealing with vintage Fenders, the necks varies a ton not only from year to year but from neck to neck. The best thing you can do is ask the seller how thick it is etc, because you're not going to find any real standard when it comes to vintage necks.

Now, the CIJ/MIJ shortscale necks should be a little more consistent, but I don't have much experience with those.

Thanks. It just felt like I was posting a lot of new threads, so I didn't want everyone to be thinking "this guy again?".

Judging by the last few posts, it sounds like it's basically a crap shoot with the exception of a 90's CIJ neck. Anyway, since I first posted this, I got a little impatient, so I just went ahead and bought a couple of necks. I've got a 70's MM and a Jag-stang neck on the way, so I guess I'll be able to see firsthand what the differences are. I guess I didn't realize there was so much inconsistency in the guitars back then, which is kind of surprising for some reason.

goldengurls · Post by **goldengurls** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:25 pm

my advice is to eat more pizza and worry less about the nut width.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:37 pm

Phil O'Keefe wrote: I have a late '65 neck that's a baseball bat. Definitely thicker and chunkier than I prefer, with more of a "U" profile and thick shoulders.

That's interesting, the neck on my '65 MMII is not like that at all, it's pretty medium I would say. Actually the neck on my CP jaguar is chunkier than the MMII's.