Sansamps: damn, these things are neat

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:01 pm

I tried to get a two-amp recording setup of a Fender DRRI and a Boogie F50 done earlier today, but only have one mic. I pointed that at my DRRI, plugged the mic into my mixer's #1 input and the 'headphones out' of my Boogie into the #2 input. The Fender sounded great, but the Boogie sounded a bit, well, shit. Nothing like the power amp stage and speaker, even at low volume.

I've used a Sansamp Bass Driver DI as a bass amp substitute for a while now, but plugging the Sansamp in between the 'headphones out' of a guitar amp and the mixer, on the other hand, sounded fantastic. There's something about the combined effects of the amp's DI (which is basically a preamp out I guess) and the Sansamp, since they don't sound nearly as good if I use one or the other separately.

I don't know how most people use Sansamps in a studio setting, but I recommend trying this: guitar -> amp -(headphones/preamp out)-> Sansamp -> mixer.

Getting good distortion sounds at 'bedroom levels' is a PITA at times, but this is nearest I've got. I'm pretty surprised at how well it works. I hope that's of help to some of you.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:34 pm

Generally, when I've had access to one it's hooked up Bass -> Sansamp -> Amp or mixer.

Brandon W · Post by **Brandon W** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:04 pm

I love all things tech 21!!

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:53 pm

I have a Para Driver. It's pretty great. I also have several Tech 21 pedals, and they're all great.

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:57 pm

I'm considering a Para Driver actually - the only issue I have with the BDDI is the mid scoop but the PD might have a wider range of eq for me to play with. Tech 21 are definitely a brand I'll keep an eye out for in future. I've seen a few people using a GT2 for guitar, but it doesn't look as versatile and is probably better used as a stompbox. Has anyone tried one of those?

There's just something about the way that the sansamp and amp's DI make up for each other's shortcomings. I'd like to use a mic, but TBH if I can approximate the sound I hear coming out of the front of my amp with a DI box, why make the process needlessly complicated?

Brandon W · Post by **Brandon W** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:47 pm

Concretebadger wrote:I'm considering a Para Driver actually - the only issue I have with the BDDI is the mid scoop but the PD might have a wider range of eq for me to play with. Tech 21 are definitely a brand I'll keep an eye out for in future. I've seen a few people using a GT2 for guitar, but it doesn't look as versatile and is probably better used as a stompbox. Has anyone tried one of those?

There's just something about the way that the sansamp and amp's DI make up for each other's shortcomings. I'd like to use a mic, but TBH if I can approximate the sound I hear coming out of the front of my amp with a DI box, why make the process needlessly complicated?

I use the para di religiously. I would certainly recommend it. The eq function is fantastic and i use it for bass and guitar and vocals. Let me tell you something else i found out about the mid sweep it has. Every once and a while i'll sit in on an acoustic set with friends and if i go into the para and then into any amp, even my mesa, i can eliminate all feedback with the para driver. You just turn the mid sweep until it's gone and i'm telling you that it sounds great with an acoustic. It's worth it to me for this feature alone. I like heavy mids so it's perfect for me but it has so many uses. I'm just starting to use the double drive 3x that i got for christmas and same thing with that. It's such a great overdrive pedal. I love it. It's got a lot of transparent gain but also gets dirty and then fuzzy and then out of control. Tech 21 and EHX are my favorites. Get one!

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:41 am

If you already have a Bass Driver, though, it does enough things in common with the Para Driver that if you are looking into another Tech 21 device, I suggest you look into some Character Series pedals. The Oxford is especially useful, sounds great on guitar, both clean and dirty, and on bass, both clean and dirty. It's not quite as Swiss army knife as a Para Driver, but at what it does, it's much better than the Para Driver. I definitely use it quite a bit, normally as a stompbox, but I'll record it direct pretty often.

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Also, a bit off topic, but this is my favorite Tech 21 pedal:

It's my secret weapon. I have the boost set up just slightly and the delay working just right that when I want to really get a searing lead tone in the middle of a song, I can get it and then go right back to blending in with the band. It's a wonderful sounding delay but like any Tech 21 product, it's just that little extra bit of thought they put into it that makes it very versatile. The Tap Tempo is great, and you have delay trails and a buffered bypass, which are important to get that seamless transition in and out of that searing zone. This is the perfect delay pedal for me.

The Boost RVB is also a cool pedal but I like to have reverb on quite a lot but it's not quite as useful for me. But for those of us who dislike having our guitars wash out when we use effects, Tech 21's effects pedals are amazing.

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:45 pm

I like the sound of the Oxford in that clip. I'm finding that I'm using a DI box for eq and the tonal 'filtering' of power amp emulation instead of adding distortion of its own - as long as the sansamp isn't adding any distortion of its own I can get enough definition without the sansamp distorting an already-distorted signal. No matter how hard I try, if the last box in the chain before the mixer is adding any distortion, that distortion will always sound papery and fizzly! It's kinda hard to explain what I'm hearing there without clips I guess.

If the Oxford or Para Driver don't do the scooped thing that the BDDI does, I'll definitely start saving up for one or the other. It takes a lot of tweaking to dial out that aspect of the BDDI's sound - otherwise, I get a 'neck pickup' kind of sound no matter which pickup is selected. It's a bit of nuisance!

Brandon W · Post by **Brandon W** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:35 pm

I am loving the double drive 3x mod. Plus my wife got it really cheap. It has a cascading gain with one being a vox type and labelled a and the other feder/marshall labelled a/b and you can blend them for a unique sound. I'm really digging it and i've had it all of 4 days. They have some settings in the instructions and one is a fuzz face and it's pretty close. If it goes to 95 bucks again then i would certainly recommend it. Right now they are back to 179.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:45 pm

See, that's the funny thing. I would agree with you, I would normally hate to have distortion added by a stompbox before it hits record, but the Oxford actually does a very good job of it.

However, the way I normally run the Oxford direct, I would actually have the Para Driver after it (phantom powered, usually). So I would shape the tone with the Oxford, pretty much treat it like an amp. I might put reverb after it. Then use the Para Driver to warm it up and add more oomph. To me, the SansAmp circuit does a great job of making it sound like you're in a perfect room environment where there's positive bass and lower midrange.

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:18 pm

Ah yes...the positive bass and lower mids. That's what I think the amp's headphone/DI signal needs to add 'realism' to the sound. I got a reply off Tech 21 yesterday, which is pretty impressive given how it was the Friday in between christmas and new year's:

Thanks for your inquiry. You're absolutely right about the Bass Driver's mid scoop, which I surmise was built into the early Ampeg SVTs so that the guitars (occupying the midrange territory) would cut through the mix without competing with midrangey bass frequencies.

Yours is an interesting application... using the SansAmp primarily as a speaker simulator for the Boogie, as opposed to an amp emulator unto itself. (This kind of makes me wonder how our now-discontinued Character Series California pedal, which is modeled after the old Boogie tone, would compare.) At any rate, I imagine you've found the "sweet spot" in the levels where you're not slamming the Bass Driver's input with TOO much signal from the amp's output (or else it would break up, or over-compress, etc.)

So, I do think the Para Driver would be a better choice, with no built-in mid scoop, and the ability to select the center frequency of the Mid control (which might actually offer you choices of speaker "personality"). The Oxford, I feel, has too much distortion and "rumble", but if you were looking for a clean Character Series tone, I'd try the Blonde, Liverpool, Leeds or even the VT Bass (which sounds great with guitar... think 1969 Rolling Stones).

So yeah. That scooped effect that I'm trying to dial out with varying degrees of success is apparently part of the BDDI's MO so a Para Driver or 'character' model will be more balanced and flexible. The question really is whether I want the Para's or Blonde's clean headroom or the additional colouration and compression of the Oxford. I quite like the idea of going from nasal buzz-saw to Wata-esque sludge with my IC Muff...muffs are fussy with what eq and gain they're used with, it seems.

I generally get my distortion from pedals and occasionally the preamp stage so I'm still not sure if I need another clipping stage later on in the chain. Since I'm in NZ for most of January, I probably won't be getting any new gear and finding time to record with it for the next month or so anyway. I'm still tempted to have a crack at the RPM Challenge again this year, but I'll have to wait and see.