Open vs closed back cabs in the studio

[Concretebadger]

The differences between closed and open-backed speaker cabs with cranked up amps are widely-discussed, but that's 'live'. What about at moderate 'bedroom' volumes though, in a studio environment? If, say, I were to mic up a 2x12 that's against a wall, would there be a noticeable difference in treble and bass response depending on whether it's open- or closed-backed?

The reason I'm asking is, I'm about to pull the trigger on an open-back Orange 2x12 after I move into my new flat in a few weeks, but I'm not sure whether it's worth putting it off and saving the extra for the more expensive closed-back version. Both are loaded with V30s, are pretty solidly built, etc., etc., but I honestly don't know if the differences in construction would translate into a difference in sound.

My gut feeling is, when a mic is only a foot or so from the speaker and when the rear of the cab is against a wall it might not make much difference. I just wondered what your experiences are with such things.

[honeyiscool]

It really matters the technique you're using, I think. If you're using a dynamic in front of the speaker against the wall, I doubt it will matter. A large condenser two feet away from the cab that's sitting in the middle of a room, absolutely it could matter.

There's also the other matter, though, where a lot of people just don't really care for V30s in an open cab, or at all.

[paul_]

I invariably get complaints from other rooms about my 5 watt VCXD combo with the 8" speaker but NOT my 100-watt Marshalls through a 4x12 or the VCXD through the same 4x12. Maybe they're just deaf by then though.

[robert(original)]

i like the closed back sound. more.... ooomph.
tho i have only ever had two closed back amps, a 68 fender bassman 2x12 piggyback, and a bassman ten

[speedfish]

Closed back takes full advantage of the speaker's ability and is a superior design to open back cabs. You will lose something with an open back. Like Robert points out it creates more ooomph!

[bluesngrunge]

Just get and open back, crank it, and place several mics around the room so you can get that full, resonate sound.

[Mages]

if you are close micing it will not matter. or the difference will be negligible anyway. if you are trying to pick up the sound in the room then you will want to use your preference for for open- or closed-back cab. you will also have to take into account the acoustics of the room. if it's a crap sounding room it's probably not worth recording with a room mic.

[honeyiscool]

Closed back takes full advantage of the speaker's ability and is a superior design to open back cabs. You will lose something with an open back. Like Robert points out it creates more ooomph!

Only if you're looking for a certain sound. Open back takes full advantage of the room acoustics and is a superior design to closed back cabs at producing a pleasant, room filling, less directional sound.

[bluesngrunge]

Closed back takes full advantage of the speaker's ability and is a superior design to open back cabs. You will lose something with an open back. Like Robert points out it creates more ooomph!

Only if you're looking for a certain sound. Open back takes full advantage of the room acoustics and is a superior design to closed back cabs at producing a pleasant, room filling, less directional sound.

+1

[ekwatts]

And as you can't always rely on the acoustics of the room you're playing in, closed backs therefore trump them because, hey, you might be playing in a shithole. At least for me. I'm assuming you're not just going to be playing a 2x12 in your bedroom, so I'd save for the closed back.

OR.

If you want it to be more flexible then you could knock up a three-piece back; you have three strips, the jacks mounted to one of them, so if you want the option you can remove one or two of the pieces for a more open-back sound. All you'd need is some decent plywood. It gets slightly more complicated if you actually want to tolex the wood as it's a real bitch to get hold of proper Orange tolex at the moment.

I'm totally sold with my closed back 2x12 though. I really can't imagine wanting/needing another cabinet for now.

[ekwatts]

Oh, another difference between the OB and CB Orange cabs is the speaker arrangement; the Chinese-made open back cab has the speakers mounted diagonally to each other, offset so the cab ends up shorter and squarer, more like a mini 4x12. The British-made closed back cab is a more traditional setup, mounted next to each other, so the cab is longer but slightly squat in comparison. The open back therefore sort of takes up less space depending how you'd stand the cab. Though really there's not much difference.

[honeyiscool]

It's my opinion, though, that closed back cabs can sound even worse in a bad room because of how directional it is. I've seen amps turned up too high that I can't hear at all because it's on the ground and not pointed toward a good spot. Anyway I am not arguing that closed > open or open > closed. I just thought it was ridiculous to claim that closed is the superior design when so many of the most iconic amps out there rely on an open 2x12" design and in fact, it seems like I can name more classic iconic combos with open 2x12s than those that are closed 2x12s. Fender Twin Reverb, Marshall Bluesbreaker, Vox AC30, etc. All I'm saying is that both have their upsides and downsides and it's pointless to argue either way.

Anyway, yeah, the diagonal speakers make a lot of sense because it spreads the sound better and you will find that it is slightly easier to hear. The traditional side-by-side 2x12s, I honestly find a bit of a waste of potential because you're directing so much sound energy directly at your shoelaces. That said, there isn't a huge height difference between the PPC212OB and PPC212C, at least not enough to really make a difference but I would be a little bit concerned about V30s. Personally, I have not liked V30 in open cabs in my experience.

[johnnyseven]

I find any amp or cab that I have set up pointing at my shoes is difficult to hear in a band situation, open or closed back. I always try and tilt them so that the speakers aim them at where my head is likely to be. This is why I prefer to stand my 2 x 12 on it's side, so one of the speakers points to an area closer to my head rather than my toes.

[ekwatts]

I find any amp or cab that I have set up pointing at my shoes is difficult to hear in a band situation, open or closed back. I always try and tilt them so that the speakers aim them at where my head is likely to be. This is why I prefer to stand my 2 x 12 on it's side, so one of the speakers points to an area closer to my head rather than my toes.

Exactly. Even better if you get a cab with an angled baffle.

[honeyiscool]

Orange made some vertical cabs back in the day.

[Concretebadger]

Orange made some vertical cabs back in the day.

Those look hawt. I guess there's no harm in tipping a 'squat' standard configuration 2x12 on its side, as long as the head on top is stable. I guess I'll have to wait to see how much space I have in my new place (won't be any less than what I have now).

I'm bookmarking this thread for reference, so cheers for the input. It's going to be 20+ kilos either way so I might as well wait to get my junk moved and buy it when I'm settled in. How hard is it to get into a closed-back Orange cab to get at the speakersbtw? An open-back would be easy enough, but there's always the possibility of wanting to try new drivers somewhere down the line.

[honeyiscool]

Depends on how open the "open" cab is, but you usually have to take apart the back to get at the speakers regardless of whether you have a closed or an open cab. In fact, I despise the Fender style open cab that has 70 or 80% of the back open. I prefer a mostly closed cab, w/ less than 1/3 of the back to be open, and you'll need to take at least one or both of the back panels out if you want to change the speaker. What sucks sometimes is that the back panel on a closed cab can get completely wedged (the vinyl will have expanded or something) and be nearly impossible to remove. In that case, good luck getting to the speakers without some industrial suction cups. On an open cab, even if that happens, the fact that you can put a hand underneath the panel means you can usually pry it open from the bottom up.

That said, though, I don't know why you'd need to take out V30s from a closed Orange cab.

Are you completely against getting a custom made cabinet? If you get the right builder, it is honestly the best of all worlds as you can get exactly the dimensions you want. There are a lot of 2x12 designs out there, here's some from a German builder:

http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/index. ... eries.html

Check out the Vertical, Slant designs, etc. These are much bigger, almost the size of a 4x12, but still a lot lighter and cheaper. They're intended to support a full sized head and have the speakers in a diagonal fashion, so they're quite large. In fact, I'd think they'd be about 50-55 pounds loaded. But considering how heavy and expensive Orange cabs are (60+ pounds!), I think that a big, tall oversized 2x12 cab loaded with your favorite speakers would be still lighter than the rather squashed looking Orange cab, and probably be a lot more useful (esp w/ 3-piece convertible back) and a lot easier to hear w/ that extra height. And if you got speakers like Celestion Century Vintage, for instance, you could actually get one that is less than 50 pounds loaded.