"lawsuit guitar" question...

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:44 pm

Are all 70s Gibson copies with the 'open book' headstock shape considered lawsuit... What's the criteria? (other than being mij)

YuriK · Post by **YuriK** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Being pretty much as good as Gibsons but being infinitely cheaper? I think the headstock is all that they were sued for, but i'm not sure.

James · Post by **James** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:34 pm

Lawsuit is one of those terms that's thrown about too often. If you were to go by ebay listings then it's anything made in Japan before about 1985 that looks even vaguely like a Gibson or Fender, the same as some people consider a 1992 MIM Telecaster to be vintage. Probably the strictest criteria is just those that match the open book headstock for a Gibson.

There's also a middle ground of people using the term for guitars that are very specific. Like a copy of a Gibson that is itself relatively rare.

Look at what's available from that era and you'll quickly find that the most consistent high quality models came a little later and the lawsuit tag is fairly meaningless. There's tons of different models available, some at prices reflecting their quality and some are still bargains. There's also a fair bit of stuff that doesn't live up to the reputation but at first glance looks the part - boat anchor bolt-on les pauls, that sort of thing.

sunshiner · Post by **sunshiner** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:40 pm

Exact copies I guess, after they were sued they decided to produce guitars with "entirely" different design - same guitars just with different headstocks.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:20 pm

There weren't really any exact copies tbh, and ibanez at least was moving away towards their own designs by the time of the lawsuit.

I've owned 7 or 8 guitars that would fit into what is known as the lawsuit era, and I know James has had a few. They are generally very good guitars, but the Gibson copies are usually bolt on, and the Fender copies are nowhere near as exact as people generally think. I know that Tokai strats were pretty close in the 80s, and Tokai's modern stuff is also very close to the Gibson designs.

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:12 pm

There's two mij les pauls in a local crack converters a Hondo ii and a Columbus both have issues but are cheap.

westtexasred · Post by **westtexasred** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:24 pm

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:37 pm

dezb1 wrote:There's two mij les pauls in a local crack converters a Hondo ii and a Columbus both have issues but are cheap.

They'll be shit my old love. Both pony guitars of my youth.

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:21 am

Â£30, for the Hondo. Not worth a punt?

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:14 am

Try them out, as far as the Hondo is concerned, some were ok, some were shite. The guitarist in one of my old bands had a Columbus. IRRC it was ok, but I was 16 at the time

theshadowofseattle · Post by **theshadowofseattle** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:31 am

James wrote: some people consider a 1992 MIM Telecaster to be vintage

22 years isn't vintage?

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:10 am

Fuck it, think I'll take a punt. Liked the look of the Hondo might try and talk them down a bit, i need something to put my GFS X-trem on (when it arrives) as I've bottled putting it on my Vintage goldtop as I like it too much and am scared I'll fuck up it's mojo.

Viljami · Post by **Viljami** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:57 pm

My 70's Hondo Strat (hardtail) does sound really nice and it has a nice chunky neck. That being said, it does need TLC, since the electronics die out from time to time, the fret-ends are sticking out and the strings smell so funky I'm hesitant to touch it.

Anyway, apart from those things (that are my fault, mostly) it's great. And really cheap.

mkt3000 · Post by **mkt3000** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:34 pm

theshadowofseattle wrote:
James wrote: some people consider a 1992 MIM Telecaster to be vintage
22 years isn't vintage?

30 is vintage. But when the difference between a modern one and a 30 year old one is negligible then, what extra value does the 30 year old one really have?

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:01 am

Viljami wrote:My 70's Hondo Strat (hardtail) does sound really nice and it has a nice chunky neck. That being said, it does need TLC, since the electronics die out from time to time, the fret-ends are sticking out and the strings smell so funky I'm hesitant to touch it.

Anyway, apart from those things (that are my fault, mostly) it's great. And really cheap.

does it sound as funky as it smells?

Viljami · Post by **Viljami** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:01 am

It can do teh Nile Rodgers.

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:24 pm

Viljami wrote:It can do teh Nile Rodgers.

that's some pungent funk...