Adventures In Telecasting

finboy · Post by **finboy** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:05 pm

I have a couple tele pup/JM trem setups, sounds similar but not as much bite. I'm guessing because it isn't hardtail and break angle is 75 degrees different

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:53 pm

Doog wrote:
robroe wrote:HEY DOOG WHAT BRIDGE PICKUP DID I PUT IN YOUR FUCKING GUITAR MAAAAAN?
MIM TELE PICKUPS MAAAAAAN

BUT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION MAAAAAAAAN

NOT TERRIBLY USELESS INFO, GUYYYZZZ

I definitely think the Tele bridge has a lot to do with their unmistakable sound and that the Tele bridge on a hardtail Strat thing would be the closest you can get... it should be noted that MIM pickups don't have a baseplate (not even MIM vintage RIs do), use ceramic magnets, are wound hotter and brasher than pickups in the vintage alnico style, and intended for 500k pots... but the twang is there on those guitars if you need it. Contrastingly, vintage Teles can make with the mid-heavy chunky rawk tonez if you need those.

To me a classic Tele pretty much always sounds like a Tele even with pretty intrusive mods, something they share with trem-equipped Strats. Teles are pretty spanky unplugged. Imagine you've stuck a voice-changer Vader mask on a friend... pretty close, if James Earl Jones had a less bassy voice, lisped and said "erm" every other word. Teles can be completely different electronically but if they've still got that bridge they're going to sound like a Tele, at least a little.

There's a lot of argument over the baseplate's effect on sound, with even Fender themselves recently marketing it as adding "midrange punch". Bill Lawrence devoted a post to it on a Fender forum some time back.

Bill Lawrence wrote:I see there is quite some confusion about the Tele bridge base plate. Everybody tries to explain the reason for this baseplate with only one function, but this baseplate has, in reality, 3 different functions:

A. Ferromagnetic functions,

B. Electrodynamic functions

C. All metal plates provide extra shielding.

#1 -- Only the steel baseplates corresponds to function A, B, and C.

#2 -- Brass, copper and aluminum baseplates have no ferromagnetic functions, and therefore, only correspond to function B and C.

#3. Alloys of the 300 series stainless steels have neither ferromagnetic nor electrodynamic functions and therefore, only correspond to function C.

Function A

Leo Fender used copper-plated steel baseplates on the Tele bridge pickup to stabilize and to increase the magnetic force of the relatively weaker Alnico 3 slugs. The ferromagnetic steel plate increases the inductance of the coil ( like increasing the number of turns on the coil). The steel baseplate also transmits from the steel bridge mount via the steel mounting screws some of the body vibrations into the pickup, resulting in that typical Tele twang. As a negative, this is also the cause of microphonic squealing at high volume levels.

Function B

Baseplates made of steel, copper, brass or aluminum are the cause of eddy current interference. Eddy currents shift the resonances toward the lows, resulting in a fatter, more pleasant tone, especially in the bridge position. If you don't want to increase the inductance of the coil and the magnetic force of the magnets, aluminum and brass baseplates are ideal to fine tune the tone of single coil pickups. These baseplates can be very effective on traditional single coil pickups with alnico slugs, but on many different designs, the result can be disastrous. Also, the thickness of the baseplate is very important -- if the plate is too thin, the effect is very little, but if the plate is too thick, you may end up with a muddy pickup. For excellent results, keep the thickness of the plate between 1/32" and 1/16" and make sure that the plate is firmly attached to the pickup.

Post by **Doog** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:24 pm

paul_ wrote:it should be noted that MIM pickups don't have a baseplate (not even MIM vintage RIs do), use ceramic magnets, are wound hotter and brasher than pickups in the vintage alnico style, and intended for 500k pots... but the twang is there on those guitars if you need it

Daaaaaaaang, I never knew. I've seen all of the Doogcaster's holes and guts, apart from under the bridge itself.

Poking around online, Jason LOLlar is definitely of the mind that it's the bridge above all else.

Does this have anything to do with the differences between Strat and Tele bridge pickups (although I'm aware the Tele bridge structure and the base plate affect that pickups performance, too)?

The coil shape isn't all that different. It's pretty similar. The big difference is that metal ashtray bridge. The bottom plate of the pickup being metal makes a very subtle difference, but that bridge, that's where you get a 15 or 20 per cent boost in volume, midrange and bass. You take that plate away and just use a Strat bridge, or put a Telecaster bridge pickup in a Strat, and it doesn't sound like a Tele.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:20 pm

WRITE ME NOT POSTING THESE NUGGETS EARLIER DOWN TO MY OLD MAN MEMORY:

- The most tele-bridge-sounding tele pickup I've ever owned was in my old (now Chris Lorez's) 69ri, which had standard MIM pickups with no baseplate.
- The second most tele-bridge-sounding pickups I've ever owned (and you need to factor in rather a lot of teles here) are the GFS Dream 90s I put in my first Tokai SG; they were shooting for P90 in humbucker format, but landed upon tele bridge.

westtexasred · Post by **westtexasred** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:40 pm

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:49 pm

benecol wrote:WRITE ME NOT POSTING THESE NUGGETS EARLIER DOWN TO MY OLD MAN MEMORY:

- The most tele-bridge-sounding tele pickup I've ever owned was in my old (now Chris Lorez's) 69ri, which had standard MIM pickups with no baseplate.
- The second most tele-bridge-sounding pickups I've ever owned (and you need to factor in rather a lot of teles here) are the GFS Dream 90s I put in my first Tokai SG; they were shooting for P90 in humbucker format, but landed upon tele bridge.

This is a good point, I thought the same thing when I put a set in my Riviera it sounded too similar to my Tele so I went back to humbuckers... The gold foils I put in my blacktop telecaster (the red one I've been complaining about elsewhere) has made it sound far more telecaster like.

robroe · Post by **robroe** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:31 am

paul_ wrote:
Doog wrote:
robroe wrote:HEY DOOG WHAT BRIDGE PICKUP DID I PUT IN YOUR FUCKING GUITAR MAAAAAN?
MIM TELE PICKUPS MAAAAAAN

BUT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION MAAAAAAAAN
NOT TERRIBLY USELESS INFO, GUYYYZZZ

woooh wait a second.

he said He like the sound of his Doogcaster and was going for that kind of sound. I asked him twice what pickup I put in it. how in the glory hell knowing what pickup he is using useless info when trying to go after that sound?

the fuck?

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:49 am

Doog wrote:
dezb1 wrote:I have not done any if the things you as of, and have only come to say do this:

Cause it looks cooolmaaan
I've been planning to do that to my black/tort Strat for ages (minus the Bigsby, although it does look fucking cool). T'would certainly be the cheapest and most DIY-est option..

Do it... T'is the future

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:50 am

robroe wrote:
paul_ wrote:
Doog wrote: MIM TELE PICKUPS MAAAAAAN

BUT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION MAAAAAAAAN
NOT TERRIBLY USELESS INFO, GUYYYZZZ

woooh wait a second.

he said He like the sound of his Doogcaster and was going for that kind of sound. I asked him twice what pickup he put in it. how in the glory hell knowing what pickup he is using useless info when trying to go after that sound?

the fuck?

Get with the program Rob...

robroe · Post by **robroe** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:31 am

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

I was saying it isn't useless info, in response to Doog saying you didn't understand the question. We're floating the idea of brass-bottom pickups being the key to Tele tonez (versus the bridge plate itself), and the Doogcaster's Tele tonez that set Doog off on this whole journey don't even have such baseplates, nor do Squier or MIM Teles which still sound plenty Tele-like. So your question unearthed a pretty relevant point.

For the sake of slight thread diversion I sense coming: fave Tele bridge pickup is the AV '64 Custom, though a Squier Standard Tele I had in 2004 (same as MIM electronics) was my first Tele ever and richly satisfying; sounded every bit the part. As Watts once said: Teles are hard to fuck up. There is a difference between the modern ceramic and vintage alnico Teles, but they both sound like a Tele in the same way a Strat's a Strat's a Strat. You have to be one guy owning several types of them before the differences actually matter.

Post by **Doog** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:40 am

Looks like I'm gonna have to put a Tele bridge and affordable MIM pickup in something wonky then. Sweet, works for me. Have been thinking about turning my/another Ibanez Jetking into a mutant version of matey from Jesus Lizard's Travis Bean, including a blue-green paintjob

[youtube][/youtube]

robroe wrote:HELP COMPYUTAH

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Hay Doogster!

I hear what ya saying in this thread man.
Not gonna get involved in the mojo feathers but I used a Tele half bridge with brass saddles on my Duo build and it sounds better than any stock Duo/MM I've owned or heard.

Anyways, I've got a mystery olde Tele bridge pup with teh brass base plate measuring at 5.8k if you want it for a project. For nowt like.

It's the one used in this vid...

► Show Spoiler

Post by **Doog** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:23 pm

Will it get me teh Kevin Carterz?

Too kind, Fran mate. When I actually start putting something together, I will come a-knocking with at least a token amount of cash in hand.

George · Post by **George** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:39 pm

sounds awesome. so it'll be toploaded i guess? or will you go whole hog and drill it for string through?

feeling inspired to do something similar myself with a strat body i have lying around

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:10 pm

Doog wrote:Will it get me teh Kevin Carterz?

Too kind, Fran mate. When I actually start putting something together, I will come a-knocking with at least a token amount of cash in hand.

It sure will duuuuude ((hellyeah))

No worries, just give us a shout when you're ready.

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:57 pm

George wrote:sounds awesome. so it'll be toploaded i guess? or will you go whole hog and drill it for string through?

feeling inspired to do something similar myself with a strat body i have lying around

Post by **Doog** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:38 am

George wrote:sounds awesome. so it'll be toploaded i guess? or will you go whole hog and drill it for string through?

feeling inspired to do something similar myself with a strat body i have lying around

Always string-through, toploaders are fo suckahs

[youtube][/youtube]

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:03 pm

You are wrong, Dong. I like the option to topload occasionally.

It's slinky feeling.

(for balance, top-wrapped tuneamatics are shite IMO).

George · Post by **George** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:29 pm

yep, think i'm going to convert one of my CV strats to take a top loading tele bridge. routs should be fine already.