Lets talk about amp heads. benecol plz help

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:06 am

I really dig my old silvertone 1483, but it's just not loud enough at gig volumes, and while trying a different cabinet might help i kinda want a head that's loud as fuck and could induce deafness.
So with my buddy moving to florida for a few months to buy some new gear, he kinda got me inspired to shop around for some new shit. I never thought i'd be back on reverb amp shopping after my silvertone but i need some more volume.
Some shit i've been looking at:
1. a really loud marshall head with some headroom, i dont imagine needing a loud sparkly clean out've this amp so a slightly driven clean would be fine, doesn't have to sound pretty. i've never been a marshall fan but they seem to be industry standard for a reason. solid big heads, only problem is i can't find a plexi looking super bass one for under 200, though they do have this vintage modern series that looks similar to what i want.

2. an old sunn head. i've found a variety of old loud sunn heads for around 6-700 on a good day, they seem to be really loud and solid, i wonder how hard it'd be to find one with a matching cab.

3. something from orange, i love that gaudy look of these, and how they have tons of gain, while i see some heads floating around in the affordable range i'm not sure if they're worth it over a sunn or marshall, any orange owners totally help me with this.

4. a tried and true fender bassman. might be inevitable to pony up for one of these, and it seems you can still find blackface ones for around 600 if you're patient, but i'm not sure if it's what i'm looking for.

5. dr z. makes a head that's around 1000 that's pretty cool looking, aside from them being the bl00z lawyer's amp of choice i wonder if these would be good for what i'm doing.

6. lastly a silvertone 1484, i love my 1483, the 1484 is around 1000 for the whole half stack and is a bit bigger and louder, plus it has janky reverb and tremolo. this is definitely a contender.

the stuff we're playing is kinda slow acid rock shit i guess if that helps, i have a demo of what we're doing in the whore house if you wanna check it out. i kinda want a big gaudy head with minimal knobs for under 1000 so i can source enough to get a decent cab, something that's loud as hell and takes fuzz as well as being crunchy when i need it. i'm really leaning towards marshalls even though i've always kinda hated them, dunno why.

also you dudes know i love weird stuff so if there's any gems let a brother know, i've been out've the amp game for a minute so i forget about all the heads that are out.

edit: also paging benecol in title because he knows the most about this shit, dude knows all the good shit.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:02 am

Oh. Oh dear. I'm shit at amps, really - I specialise (!) in little, comparatively quiet ones (I have a Princeton and a Vibrochamp). But for what it's worth...

You'll overpay for an Orange stateside. And I share your dislike of Marshalls (sorry Doog/Mike). And while an old Sunn would be fun, I'd be cagey about gigging/playing loud with any elderly kit and not having an extensive repairs budget.

So, if I was stateside, it'd be either (second choice) and old Bassman head (some Marshall tonez, crunch, volume but also elderly kit woes) or (first choice) a Twin. They're cheap as fuck over there comparatively, louder than bombs, take pedals well (just buy one more for the crunch you require) and bulletproof.

As a Brit, I covet your cheap Twins the most.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:42 am

I've never played a Marshall that had a loud enough clean tone to keep up with the drummer in my band. Granted my experience only goes as far as the JCM 800, JCM 900 and JCM 200 DSL - the closest to a loud clean came from the JCM 800, which also sounded the best of all 3 to my ears.

I have limited experience of Orange too. I had a Rocker 30 which didn't take some pedals very well, but have used a (I think) TH100 which was had a loud clean channel which sounded really good, took the pedals I used with it well and kept up with my drummer. It did go through an Orange 4x12 which also improved the Marshalls mentioned above, so not sure how much the cab helped with the sound.

I would always rate the Bassman though. I have a 1975 silverface and it is very loud and clean, but can drive with the volume above about 5. It has a lovely clean sound and takes pedals exceptionally well. It does run at 4 ohms though, although I ran it at 8 for years and it sounded good - but sounds much better at 4.

Post by **Doog** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:44 am

johnnyseven wrote:I've never played a Marshall that had a loud enough clean tone to keep up with the drummer in my band. Granted my experience only goes as far as the JCM 800, JCM 900 and JCM 200 DSL - the closest to a loud clean came from the JCM 800, which also sounded the best of all 3 to my ears.

I gigged with a JCM2000 DSL50 for like 8 years, using it only as a clean platform for pedals and it kept up fine, but it's not so overpowered that you couldn't get the power amp section running at a volume to help it squash a little bit, in that way we like.

Those JJ E34L tubes (not EL34) run at a higher plate voltage or something, resulting in more clean headroom, and that defo helped.

Those heads used to be pretty affordable over here used, but I'd imagine just having them imported from the UK to the US pushes up the price of both the new and used market.

You might dig one, there's a load of variety in the amp that takes it from that big wooly Plexi drive to the spiky JCM900 style stuff. The early models had issues with transformers going and stuff, although in terms of repairs, I only ever needed the channel switch relay fixed like 5 years ago.

I'd personally take your main guitar and dirt box to a store and try a bunch of stuff out; I know you're a MUFF FAN, and that's one of those pedals that can make an amp sink-or-swim.

Concretebadger · Post by **Concretebadger** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:50 pm

If you dig the Orange vibe, Matamp Matamp MATAMP. They've even managed to source some of that green tolex again, so if you want gaudy AND different, there's that. A super easy decision perhaps, as long as you're on the UK side.

I'm not all that impressed with the newer Marshall stuff, but a JCM800 RI I tried a few years back sounded really nice. If you're on the US side though, you could get lucky with one of the old Mesa F series second-hand. I'm not an "amp gain" sort of player, but the OD channel is pretty highly regarded while being voiced a bit differently from the Rectos. The clean channel sounds lovely though, and my F50 is bloody loud for 50 watts.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:01 pm

Doog wrote:
johnnyseven wrote:I've never played a Marshall that had a loud enough clean tone to keep up with the drummer in my band. Granted my experience only goes as far as the JCM 800, JCM 900 and JCM 200 DSL - the closest to a loud clean came from the JCM 800, which also sounded the best of all 3 to my ears.
I gigged with a JCM2000 DSL50 for like 8 years, using it only as a clean platform for pedals and it kept up fine,

I should maybe have pointed out that our drummer plays excessively loudly and I was talking about a totally clean tone at volume. For instances when not quite as much volume is required (or if mic'ing it up) it would be more than fine, the clean sound was pretty nice - just not quite loud enough for my purposes.

Post by **dots** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:44 pm

Doog wrote:Those JJ E34L tubes (not EL34) run at a higher plate voltage or something, resulting in more clean headroom, and that defo helped.

yep, this. <3 jj's.

for price, mojo, and versatility of the options you've laid out, i'd say a bassman head with a 2x12 or 4x12 cab will give you what you're looking for. if you're looking stay combo, twin is a good option as well. i gotta say i am a vox convert after my experience the last couple of months. their price point is pretty good on both the used and new markets, and they will get plenty loud.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:12 pm

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Definitely going to shop around for an old fender whenever I get some cash, like you guys said it seems to be the best option. Definitely am gonna have to try some shit out. Cool thing about old fenders is there's always a deal to be had around here.

Johno · Post by **Johno** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:01 pm

Doog wrote:
I'd personally take your main guitar and dirt box to a store and try a bunch of stuff out; I know you're a MUFF FAN, and that's one of those pedals that can make an amp sink-or-swim.

Good advice, I watched a video by gigrig recently where they played some well known pedals and compared the sound difference through Fender and Marshall voiced amps.

Will defo take my pedalboard with me next time I go amp shopping...