30 watt speaker in 15 watt combo amp (AC15CC1)

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:59 pm

Greetings - I'm gonna replace the Wharfdale speaker that came in my Vox AC15(CC1). I'm more about the slightly overdriven Vox sound than the allout Vox crunch - so - I was thinking of putting in a 30 watt speaker, so I can push the amp hard(er) without it breaking up as soon/as much. Also hoping it will have somewhat of a warming/smoothing effect as compared to a 15 watt speaker. Is my thinking correct, and is it kosher to do so? In particular, I'm looking at a Weber Blue Dog, which comes in 15, 30, 50, 75, and 100 watt versions.

Post by **Mike** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:07 pm

As long as you match impedance you can do what you like in terms of stepping up the wattage of the speaker - although I have to say I doubt you're hearing much speaker breakup - amps just aren't designed to drive speakers that hard...

However I think if headroom is what you're looking for a 60W Vintage30 or a 25W Greenback would be nice.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:31 pm

Mike wrote:As long as you match impedance you can do what you like in terms of stepping up the wattage of the speaker - although I have to say I doubt you're hearing much speaker breakup - amps just aren't designed to drive speakers that hard...

Aah. So it is totally safe, but may have negligible results. Is there any downside to stepping up the wattage of the speaker?
Also, the AC15CC1 has an impedance switch, 8 or 16. Is there any benefit to one over the other, with a single speaker configuration?

Mike wrote: However I think if headroom is what you're looking for a 60W Vintage30 or a 25W Greenback would be nice.

Celestions, yes? If speaker breakup is doubtfully an issue, how will these particular ones offer more headroom? Thanks!

Post by **Mike** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:49 pm

There is no downside in that I think speaker distortion is pretty much not a common occurence in commerically produced combos. There is no benefit to an 8 or 16 ohm speaker, it's just a different tap point on your output transformer. Corksniffers will tell you 16 ohms is better as you get all the winds - these people are idiots. Match the impedance and a happy man you'll be.

I recommended those speakers as they handle more than your amp and are smooth sounding rock speakers.

Post by **Doog** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:17 pm

I'm sure I've asked this before, but would using an amp set to 4 ohms into a 4 ohm load be any different to the same but with 8 ohms? Does a lower impedance actually make the amp work more efficiently?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:54 am

Nope. Like I said before, one is just tapped less windings along the secondary coil. People will try and tell you there's a difference but they're idiots.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:12 pm

If there's no downside to upping the wattage of a speaker, I wonder why manufacturers would use anything other than high wattage speakers in their cabs - it would make them compatible with a wider range of heads, and lower the risk of being blown!? Or, are the sound characteristics, and/or manufacturing costs at different wattages pronounced enough to warrant using low wattage speakers?

In any case, for now, I ordered a 30 watt 16 ohm Alnico Weber Blue Dog. I've heard wonderful things about these speakers, and they're surprisingly affordable. The owner of the company, Ted, actually answers the phone, and is very friendly and helpful. He thought a 30 watt would give good results in my AC15... I got the 16 ohm so that I can run it with a 16ohm extension cab, if need be.

Oh, I also ordered some nice replacement tubes - nicer I'm sure, than the what must be very stock Chinese issues in there at present. Hopefully it'll all pay off...!
One day I'd like to get a pile of tubes, and a few choice speakers, and spend a weekend doing a taste test! 'Til then it's just trial and error.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:16 pm

fretman wrote:If there's no downside to upping the wattage of a speaker, I wonder why manufacturers would use anything other than high wattage speakers in their cabs - it would make them compatible with a wider range of heads, and lower the risk of being blown!? Or, are the sound characteristics, and/or manufacturing costs at different wattages pronounced enough to warrant using low wattage speakers?

Cost is a major factor.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:45 pm

Mike wrote:
fretman wrote:... wonder why manufacturers would use anything other than high wattage speakers...
Cost is a major factor.

Interesting. On the Weber site, I think the price is the same regardless of what wattage you pick. That would imply that the higher the wattage, the sweeter the deal (or vice versa), yes?!

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:48 pm

No, but you generally have to redesign the speaker if you're doing a good job - however some manufacturers make shitty budget speakers with high wattage handling and put them in everything. Like the Celestion Goldback series which is put in budget and low wattage Marshall amps.

Post by **dots** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:03 pm

i don't know how good wharfdales are, but changing the stock speakers in the fender 4x12 cab with celestion vintage 30's made a big difference in quality of sound. sometimes just switching to a better brand can make a difference.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:07 pm

Mike wrote:No, but you generally have to redesign the speaker if you're doing a good job - however some manufacturers make shitty budget speakers with high wattage handling and put them in everything. Like the Celestion Goldback series which is put in budget and low wattage Marshall amps.

Aaah. The Webers are actually made to order, so I'm guessing they're doing it right. They're very highly regarded - are you familiar with them? Does anyone here use them?

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:10 pm

dots wrote:i don't know how good wharfdales are, but changing the stock speakers in the fender 4x12 cab with celestion vintage 30's made a big difference in quality of sound. sometimes just switching to a better brand can make a difference.

Wharfdales make good, inexpensive hi fi speakers. I'm not sure what their history in instrument speakers is. I know that the Vox/wharfdale is $300 cheaper than the Vox/celestion. Now, they're definitely overcharging for the celestion, but even so, that's a pretty grand indicator from the "you get what you pay for" standpoint. Of course, Alnicos are always more expensive than ceramics...

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:11 pm

I don't really "get" Wharfedale or Weber speakers but they're apparently pretty "hifi". I like Classic rock sounding doobries like Celestion G12T-75s and Vintage 30's, also Greenbacks.

Eminence sound strange and middy in an odd way to me.

Weber are a good company though, they haven't lost the human touch.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:18 pm

Mike wrote:I don't really "get" Wharfedale or Weber speakers but they're apparently pretty "hifi". I like Classic rock sounding doobries like Celestion G12T-75s and Vintage 30's, also Greenbacks. Eminence sound strange and middy in an odd way to me.
Weber are a good company though, they haven't lost the human touch.

Do you know though, if Wharfedale have a long history of making instrument speakers? I only know their hifi* stuff, and now this Vox marriage.

*by"hifi" I mean for home stereos, not the quality of sound...

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:24 pm

Dunno to be fair.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:30 pm

Their website doesn't have a single instrument loudspeaker, so if they do have a history of making amp speakers, they're not talkin' about it!
There was one model of their home stereo speakers which started getting used alot in recording studios, for mixing. Kinda like the original Yamaha NS10 story. Now I think they capitalized on that, and are actually marketing them as studio monitors. Maybe with some modifications, I'm not sure...

Chico Malo · Post by **Chico Malo** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm

fretman wrote:
Mike wrote:No, but you generally have to redesign the speaker if you're doing a good job - however some manufacturers make shitty budget speakers with high wattage handling and put them in everything. Like the Celestion Goldback series which is put in budget and low wattage Marshall amps.
Aaah. The Webers are actually made to order, so I'm guessing they're doing it right. They're very highly regarded - are you familiar with them? Does anyone here use them?

I currently have a Weber 12F150 in my Marshall Studio 15. I don't really like the way it sounds. Too tinty. I ordered a Celestion Vintage 30 to try out innit.

euan · Post by **euan** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:31 pm

Wharfedale are owned by the same company as Celestion. Or I actually might be thinking about Kef.

Anyway, Wharfedale tend to be quite well regarded in PA circles.

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:39 pm

Chico Malo wrote:I currently have a Weber 12F150 in my Marshall Studio 15. I don't really like the way it sounds. Too tinty. I ordered a Celestion Vintage 30 to try out innit.

If I'm reading it right, that's a Vintage series speaker, with a ceramic magnet? Did you order it especially for that amp, or did you get it that way?
I ordered a British series, alnico magnet (blue dog) for the Vox - hoping I'll like it well enough! Their orders are 3 weeks behind, mine should arrive next week...