Assist me with my amp quandary...

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:56 pm

Right - bear with me on this; the gist is pretty much "I fancy a new amp - or do I?".

I've currently got a Laney LC15 - open back, 10" Jensen speaker combo, simple 3 tone controls. Through this I play my Jazzmaster and my tele 72 custom, and a bazillion fuzz pedals. And, when I get another one, a baritone guitar. So I suppose I like amps with nice cleans that take well to pedals.

My problem is, I'm almost completely unable to get much tonal variation from any amp ever - they say tone is in the fingers, and in my case I just sound pretty meh through any amp I've ever plugged in to. Don't get me wrong, I quite like the Laney, but I've never had any stronger feeling than "quite liking" any amp.

What else do we need to know? I like the sound (have you spotted I'm trying to avoid the word tonezzz?) of Comets on Fire, Howlin' Rain (both loads of fuzz through a twin, I think), Sonic Youth (sheer volume), Grinderman (tiny Fender), Blue Cheer (HUGE stacks), the Stooges (dunno), Dinosaur Jr (Marshalls made of hen's teeth) and Lou Reed's solo on Fistful of Love (fuck knows). So that's every combination of amp and pedals ever then.

My requirements are: I don't gig, and only play out once a month, so I don't need mega power, and whatever I get has to fit in my little house, so not too big or my wife'll kill me. And it's got to come in at (well) under Â£500ish. I was all ready to sell the Laney when I started thinking that, actually, this might be just the amp I need...

Here are some of the options I've been pondering:

1) Buy a Harley Benton G212 Vintage cab to add some cojones to the Laney (if this doesn't work for me, I could later sell the Laney and get a TT, ValveJunior or Blackheart head to pair with the cab)

2) Sell the Laney and get a TT and G212 Vintage cab

3) Buy the SF Vibro Champ that's near me (overpriced at Â£250 though - another open-backed, 10" combo?)

4) Sell more stuff and buy something else.

So what do you reckon? Low wattage is fine, easy-ish to coax nice sounds out of, must love/like pedals, nice cleans a bonus.

Apologies for length, and if this is a really stupid OTT question. Mike made me do it...

Post by **Doog** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:59 pm

Might be worth chucking an EQ pedal into the mix before you shell out hardcore stylee- unless the actual "cleaness" of your current amp is an issue?

Speakers make a helluva lot of difference too- my old Laney 120w solidstate always sound a little too dark til I ditched the Trace Elliot 4x12 a Marshall 2x12 with different speakers.

Any idea of the speaker in the Laney?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:01 pm

The Laney is a nice amp, I tihink what you might be experiencing is the limitations of a small 10" speaker in a combo. I don't like Combos much as a result of the boxiness you can often get from them. Personally I think trying the amp out at a shop through a 2x12" might be my first course of action, see what that does for your feeling of the amps clean tone and sounds.

Secondly you might want to upgrade to a 30Watt combo, the extra headroom will give you a fuller tone sound that you might enjoy. The Laney VC30 and LC30 combos have lovely clean sounds.

Thirdly if you like your cleans the TT might not be for you, with single coils you can only get the gain up around 10-11 o clock without some colouration of the sound with grit, you might find this titillating or an annoyance. It's catch-22.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:02 pm

I'd like less EQ options rather than more, if at all possible. The lAney's cleans are OK. Not quite Fender-y, but I guess the open back helps?

Post by **Doog** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Yeah, but the option of a 9 band EQ can add a lot that a simple 3 band EQ can't, spesh if you're trying to sort out the boxy tone or get a bit more top end out of the setup- hell, just leave the amp's EQ at midnight and do it all from the pedal.

Of course, an EQ pedal can only do so much, it ain't gonna give a small combo the bottom end of a 1x15 cab or something..

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:08 pm

I'm thinking it's the speaker/combo situation. I much prefer cleans through a closed back separate cabinet.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:17 pm

Mike wrote:I'm thinking it's the speaker/combo situation. I much prefer cleans through a closed back separate cabinet.

I think I prefer the sound from a closed back cab too, and it'd be nice to have the option to choose 10" or 12" speakers. I'm leaning towards getting the HB cab from thomann, and modding my Laney so I can switch the speaker on or off.

Not sure what is meant by "boxy tone" (my fault not yours, obviously) - I quite like cheap sounding, tranny-radio guitar. I'm really reluctant to get an EQ pedal, as I think of it as just more things to f*ck up. That's why the TT appeals. The grit of the TT isn't too much of a worry - when I'm playing out, it's with some acoustic instruments and a piano, so I don't go too loud anyway. And when I bring teh fuzzy abandon, it ceases to be an issue.

What about the Vibro Champ? Anyone know much about them? Thanks to everyone who's weighed in so far.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:27 pm

I like the little old Champ amps and they can sound great, however I think yuou might run into the similar problems as it's again a 10" speaker in a Combo.

By boxy I mean mid-focused without rich bass or highs.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:10 pm

Ah, gotcha. The speaker upgrade I did has worked wonders. I usually just roll back the bass to about 8-9 (o'clock), dime the treble (or thereabouts) and fiddle nervously with the middle. I refuse on point of honour to turn the mids down because that's what metallers do, isn't it?

That's right, you heard me - I'm too fashion conscious and cool to turn my mids down, despite what my ears might be telling me.

So what would be a fair (UK mind) price for a semi-tatty vibrochamp?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:14 pm

I have no idea really to be honest, the guy who rents us practise space has the only one I've seen and played in person and he's had it for yonks. Whatever you'll pay for it I suppose? They were probably around Â£250 new. Fender needs to reissue them instead of that Champion 600 or hybrid SS preamp junk they're doing. Fender are twats though, it's genetic.

I imagine you're talking depressing amounts, like Â£400-Â£500.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:15 pm

benecol wrote:Ah, gotcha. The speaker upgrade I did has worked wonders. I usually just roll back the bass to about 8-9 (o'clock), dime the treble (or thereabouts) and fiddle nervously with the middle. I refuse on point of honour to turn the mids down because that's what metallers do, isn't it?

and LOLZ.

I have my mids generally 5 and up. The mids is your guitar, the bass is well.. you get it. I don't like Mid HUMPs (TUBESCREAMERS I HAT THEM), but a midrich guitar sound is crucial to actually cutting through in a band situation and being present. But feel free to cut if you like it that way. There's no rules, and you're not cutting all the mids anyway, just where the control is centred.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:17 pm

Ebay says VibroChamps should be around Â£600 (YIKES. Some cunts trying to BIN at Â£850 will be disappointed).

Champ for Â£350-Â£500 I think, depending on year and condition.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:19 pm

Mike wrote:I imagine you're talking depressing amounts, like Â£400-Â£500.

So the Â£250 they want for it (and it's been in there over a year) doesn't seem so bad after all...

Mike wrote:...you're not cutting all the mids anyway, just where the control is centred.

Eh? Is there anywhere online I can learn about this sort of stuff?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:22 pm

If it's a 60's one you're quids in.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:23 pm

benecol wrote:
Mike wrote:...you're not cutting all the mids anyway, just where the control is centred.
Eh? Is there anywhere online I can learn about this sort of stuff?

Here's a lovely site:

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/ampbasic.htm

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:25 pm

Might be time for me to start practising my guitar shop riffs, and getting good at hiding my sniggering when I see the Epiphones marked up at Â£600.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:26 pm

NO STAIRWAY

Progrockabuse · Post by **Progrockabuse** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:55 pm

i think mike said earlier that you could try a vc30, the next model up from the vc 15. could give you that little bit more headroom, and would be something similar to what your using already. unless your after a different flavour.

dolphin music have one for Â£299 if thats any help.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop ... t_id/33905

analogsystem · Post by **analogsystem** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:59 pm

If low wattage is really fine as you say, then you should definitely check out a 2x12 with greenbacks or Vintage 30s....that will add a lot of life to your sound. It could also be that you just don't dig the sound of the laney. Check out a fender blues jr. or even a peavey classic 30, both low power (and not too expensive) versicle tube amps that take pedals really well.