Project Vibro-Champ - Part 9 - DONE!

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Post by filtercap »

Thanks for encouraging my behavior, everybody.
euan wrote:Loving the in direct reference to the Fletcher Munson curve.
Pointsss for having that name at your fingertips, Euan! I did have that curve/effect in mind, but I'd long ago forgotten what it was called. This coupon good for +10 on your next post. :wink:

I think the Fletcher-Munson effect is to blame for a lot of the awful harsh/spiky guitar tones I've heard at shows. The amp sounded good at basement volume, so people crank it up to club volume without re-balancing the highs/lows. That-n they stand off to one side of their speakers, where the highs are something like 10dB quieter, and overcompensate on the Treble knob.

Meanwhile you stand there in the crowd, earholes directly on-axis with the beam of harsh coming out of the speakers, listening to them fletchering the munson out of their guitar sound and wondering "Why do they think that sounds GOOD????" Off my soapbox now. :) But I do think that a Twin (for example) needs its Treble knob on about 4 max once it's balanced with a loud drummer.
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Post by Mike »

Fletchering the Munson. Nice.

Yeah at smaller gigs you definitely get that effect if there's no micing up and stage volume = FOH volume.
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Post by mewithoutus »

i dont know what it is, but thats a trend among local bands in this area too. vintage fender amps, treble MAXXED OUT.
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Post by euan »

Basically it means that some frequencies seem naturally louder than others do. Down partly to the resonance of the ear canal and some other factors. The ear is most sensitive around the 1k region. Which is there abouts the cry of a baby I believe.

Another proof of evolution I believe. Its the audio equivalent of the human eye being more sensitive to colours like red.
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Post by filtercap »

PART 7 -- BoosterQuest and FailFest

The whole point of having a small amp is that it isn't as loud as a big one, right? All the same, I wanted to look around and see if I could find a little more volume hiding in there someplace. You know, just to see if I could. Also, maybe I'd find a decent place to make a switchable gain-boost.

Starting at the power tube and moving back towards the preamp, I tried a number of things that didn't really work. Then, faced with the prospect of having to post Filtercap's Festival of Fail, I fell back on something that I knew =would= work.

Actually, I'll parade some of the dogs past you, if you care to click. (A couple of them have some possibilities, just not anything I was interested in.) Or just jump down to the successful mod below.

Change the 6V6 grid resistor value? FAIL. Unless....
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Add resistance to the vibrato circuit? Not worth it.
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Beef up the second-stage bypass cap? Only works if you do it WRONG.
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Okay fine. Time to play my ace: Tone stack resistor!

The Internet-approved way to add a ton of gain to a blackface/silverface Champ is to disconnect the tone stack from ground. The tone stack works by throwing away part of the guitar signal, and this means a pretty big "insertion loss" (loss of signal from "inserting" the tone stack into the signal path). The throwing-away is done through the "mid resistor". "Mid" as in "midrange."

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In the Vibro Champ, the value of this resistor and the mid cap determines how much midrange is tossed out. In bigger Fender amps, a Middle knob takes the place of the resistor.

For max boost, you just lift one end of this resistor. You get a big boost in the midrange and all the bass you can eat, but you also lose the use of the Bass control. It's all-or-nothing.

I tried a few different things that are too dreary to get into here. What I ended up doing is adding a 10K-ohm pot to the original 15K-ohm resistor. A switch let me snap back and forth from 15K to 25K to compare. This pic illustrates why the Dr. Z people never return my phone calls.

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The added resistance reshapes the sound, giving it more midrange, a =mild= volume boost, and a little more overdrive once I get the guitar/amp volume up into the grit zone. Even a 1K-ohm change makes an audible difference. I tested a 100K-ohm pot as well: crazy amounts of midrange crunch, but not really what I'm after.

I'll probably give the amp a switchable mid-boost based on that 15K-plus-10K setup, maybe moving it up to 15+12 or down to 15+7.

...........

One last item: I got a Fender-branded 5Y3 rectifier tube for a spare. Cool box.

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This is a new Sovtek tube with the Fender script painted on. Apparently Sovtek are one of the only sources for new 5Y3 rectifiers. Torres Engineering likes them, and other people are ambivalent because they kick out higher voltage than older 5Y3 tubes like my old RCA. This means more cleans and less sag.

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With the Sovtek tube in the amp (and my rheostat busy rheostatting in the background), I get about 17 volts more at the rectifier and about 15 more at the 6V6 tube. There is a little bit of a difference in sound: a little cleaner, a little less compressed, and slightly stronger mids. I could tweak my rheostat setting to drop the voltage down again, but I think I'll keep it as is. I can swap rectifier tubes for some variety.
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Post by Mike »

filtercap wrote:This pic illustrates why the Dr. Z people never return my phone calls.

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Hahaha.. Amazing. I love all this - you're a proper legend. Learnt a lot there
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Post by filtercap »

PART 8 -- Eek You!

Next up, a few EQ adjustments, and a brilliant (and easy) tremolo mod.

So far I'd been testing the amp with the Treble on 4 and my Stratocaster tone knob on about 6 (neck or bridge pickup) because the amp's so bright. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it seemed like the amp might be filtering out some useful low-mids through that smallish .022uF coupling capacitor. Here it is in the Vibro Champ schematic diagram.

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So I tested a few things and decided to change this up to .047uF. A fuller, rounder sound.... less presence, but I still have brights to burn on this amp if I turn the guitar's tone knob up. No problem.

About coupling capacitors.... Clicky clicky.
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At this point I noticed that with the guitar volume all the way up, hitting a low E string hard sort of interfered with the way the high E and B strings sustained. This was the case with only the very lowest notes, from low E up to maybe low G. It sounded like the booming, slightly overdriven low string was cutting notches in the sound of the high strings. This is that "modulation" I mentioned in Part 7... where what's happening in one set of frequencies (the lowest lows) changes how other frequencies (the highs) sound.

What caused it, and why I wasn't surprised to hear it....
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To deal with this without losing the lows I'd been working to get, I started changing capacitors in the tone stack. I ended up reducing the bass cap from .1uF to .022uF, and reducing the mid cap from .047uF to .022uF also. (In the photo, the biggest orange cap is the new coupling cap.)

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This pair of 22's gave me a tone stack similar to some of the more modern Fenders like the Blues Jr. It's a pretty common fix. Really, I didn't lose any audible bass. I just shifted the low end of the amp's response up out of the whales-only frequencies that don't have much to do with guitar anyway.

Funny, because I'd ordered a handful of nice "orange drop" capacitors to do direct replacements of the tone and coupling caps. The original blue-black caps have a bad reputation, and I was going to replace each with a new cap of the same value and see how much of an improvement there was. But now that I'd changed cap values around, I had an orange .1uF left over, and a shortage of .022's. I ended up recycling the old blue .022 coupling cap as my new mid cap. It sounds good as-is, so Science will just have to wait.

Back when I replaced all the caps in my Twin Reverb with orange drops, I do recall a vague feeling of wellbeing afterwards. But I was doing lots of other mods at the time too. Has anybody replaced tone/coupling caps in a Fender amplifier and noticed a change? What did it sound like?


.......

I think I've pretty much got the amp where I want it, gain-wise and tone-wise. While it's open, I thought I'd try slowing down the tremolo ("Vibrato" in Fenderese). It sounds good at moderate speeds, but it would be really handy to get an even slower pulse.

As I mentioned before, the Vibro Champ vibro is set up differently from most other Fenders. Here are some deeetails.
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After a little internettery, I found a forum poast with the solution I needed. Change one of the trembrolato vibroscillator caps from .01uF to .02uF (there are three: two .01's and one .02). Great. Yet another .022 cap needed. Fortunately I had a baggie of funky old caps harvested from my Twin Reverb. I fished out a beat, waxy old .022 and soldered it into the Vibro Champ instead of the .01 disc cap.

Perfect. I can get a nice slooow vibrothrob now, and it's taken some of the hard edge off the faster chop too. Good Internet. pat pat pat. Gooood Internet.

At long last, I think I have everything tweaked the way I want it. Time to get it all nailed in place inside the amp.......
Last edited by filtercap on Mon May 05, 2008 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mike »

"The Vibrato footswitch sends the looping signal to ground and ruins everything. "

Amazing.

<3 all these updates.
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Post by filtercap »

PART 9 -- Done!

Finally..... time to put everything back in the box. The Vibro Champ looks like it's on life support, with tack-soldered wires running out to test pots and switches, components alligator-clipped together, and so on. I'll put in the real-deal components now and try to tidy things up.

Back in Part 5, I made a cardboard control panel and then wired a big rheostat from the panel to the Vibro Champ's power supply. Now I disconnected my cardboard panel from the amp. The rheostat was set at 768 ohms. To take the place of the temporary rheostat, I chose a 750-ohm, 10-Watt power resistor to install in the amp.

The power resistor will have to turn almost 3 Watts of juice into heat. To give this little heater some air space, I made a platform with a piece of circuit board and some insulated standoffs. No screwing metal standoffs to the chassis here, not with 380-410 volts hovering close by. If I made a mistake and some unseen metal bit were to touch a grounded standoff, bye-bye transformer.

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The resistor tested OK. Very close to my target voltage, and more importantly the amp sounded the same as it did with the rheostat.

In Part 6, I was testing different cathode resistors and bypass caps on the 6V6 power tube. Now I chose two resistor/cap combinations I liked and soldered in the resistors/caps I needed to get these settings. Then I set up a push-pull Volume control. With the Volume knob pushed in, I have the "stock" 520-ohm/25uF combination for more presence and pick attack. With the Volume pulled out, the amp goes to a 1.1K-ohm/50uF combo for a darker sound with more compression and a softer attack.

In Part 7, I was looking for a good place for a booster. I disconnected my test switch and pots from the tone stack, and then replaced the original Bass knob with another push-pull control. When pulled out, it adds a mid-boost. When pushed in, the tone stack goes back to being its usual un-boosted self.

Two more little projects. First, I rewired the tube heater ("filament") circuit. The tube heaters run on AC power from a separate section of the power transformer, and AC hum can get into your guitar sound. Actually, the amp was already surprisingly quiet, with not much that sounded like heater hum, but why not try it? Click for the informations.
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Last, I tried disconnecting that little mystery cap on the 6V6 tube. Here's the photo from Part 2 again.

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As I thought, it's basically there to kill off some highs (like a little negative feedback loop). The amp sounds better with the capacitor in place. No problem. Reconnect reconnect reconnect fixed.

And that's it! Here's the chassis, showing most of the changes that I kept. Click the pic for a larger one with clearer text.

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One last change you might have noticed in the chassis photo.... black faceplate!

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From the back...

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And there you have it. The amp wrox.... especially with the chassis and grille back in place. It seems like the added weight/inertia of the chassis and transformers helps an amp kick out the low end compared with the un-chassi'd cabinet by itself (same deal on my Twin Reverb).

Congrats if you've read this far without your eyes glazing over. :roll:

As time permits, I'll get some sound samplees together.... and see how well this thing stacks up against microphones.
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Post by mewithoutus »

bravo sir, bravo! very nice. amazing job! legend.
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Post by NickS »

Great thread and
screen resistor for luck and double happiness
very educational. :)
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Post by Mike »

Would love some samples. You're truly shortscale.org's Amp Guru. I applaud you and your talents.
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Post by euan »

Amazed. I need to read through this thread a good few times.
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Post by Justin J »

'twas a good read. awaiting sonds.
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Post by Thom »

Amazing. Totally over my head, but well impressive!
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Post by timhulio »

Absolutely amazing. Stunning little project. I actually prefer the silver face cosmetics, but bravo anyway!
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Post by tribi9 »

filtercap wrote: This means working around some of the highest voltages in the amp, so I always switch the amp off and check to see that the voltage has been bled away before I start. Here's my one-hand chopstick voltage-checking move, Vibro-Champ version: from the rectifier tube to the chassis.

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That would be pin 1 you got the probe in, right? Also will it matter whether you use the preamp's, the trem's, or the rectifier's pin 1 to discharge the caps?

Thx
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Post by tribi9 »

Does Filtercap even post here anymore?
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Post by Mike »

It's been a while, but he'll be around. PM him and he'll get an email.
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Post by benecol »

Arr - PM him: he dropped the mad knowledge on me a few days ago. He's ace.