Amp plan - opinions?

[Will]

I like having 2 different kinds of amps: a small Class A tube combo for practicing/recording and a big clean SS for band stuff. My Champ 12 is awesome for rehearsals, but doesn't cut it live. Neither does my Princeton Chorus.

I'd really like to build the Weber 5F2A kit (4.5W, 1x10"), which would be perfect for practice and recording (90% of what I do).

My main concern is that the biggest amp I could reasonably get for performance would be 100W, which wouldn't be significantly louder the the 50W I have now. I could get a JC-120, but I can't justify the cost for how little I perform. If I could go through our PA, I could take advantage of 300W+ of power and 2 15" speakers.

What if I got a Weber MASS or other line-out device and connected the 5F2A to our PA system for performances? Could I expect a reasonable sound, or would mic'ing give better results? What would I have to consider with this kind of setup?

Opinions? Compromises?

[Mike]

What?

50W is more than adequate for practise unless you're in a band who plays far too loud. Are you talking Solid State Watts or Tube Watts? Solid State 50W amps are a LOT quieter than 50W Tube Amps.

A 100W Tube amp is going to kill people.

[timhulio]

I was looking at those small Weber kits- they look like great fun and I need a small 1x10" amp for playing around the flat.

Have you built one before? Did you die from electricz?

[James]

...100W, which wouldn't be significantly louder the the 50W I have now.

[Mike]

If he's talking 100W Valve vs. 50W Solid State (and I think he is), then the Tube amp will be much louder.

It's a jumbled post of bizarreness though, which makes me think he will indeed kill himself by putting 450V across his heart during the build.

[kim]

you won't be able to crank a 100w amp as much as you want and not piss of the other people in the room (rehearsal). but if you're after a tube amp that has to sound super super clean at high volume then that's understandable you're more likely to opt for a 100w amp.

personally i think 50 is MORE than enough of tube amp volume seriously. years i played in a band where the two guitarists both had 100 w tube amps put through 4x12's and for a regular (but heavy) rockband i still think it's overkill, personally.
of course certain brand 50 watt tube amps will be louder than others and also depends on eq setting etc but i can only see 100 w amps being not-ridiculous in certain types of music and certain type live playing settings ...less is more i think.. you can drive a 50 w amp more so you'll get more out of it and the amp will be used the way it 'likes to be used'.
lots of times it's almost like putting a big dog in an apartment while it just wants to run free, with a 50w amp you an let it run free, with a 100 w amp people will want to kill you if you let it 'run free'

[timhulio]

Did you know that Fender amps are only twice as loud on '10' as they are on '1'?

Completely irrelevant, but a fun fact nonetheless.

[Mike]

Yes we all know about decibels, Tim.

Mostly Fender amps (or some of them) are shit, because they have Linear Tapers on their Master Volumes (*cough*HotRodDeluxe*cough*) so all the volume increase is in the 0-1.5 range, stupidly. They do it so you put it on 1 in the shop and go "WAOW DIS AMP IS LOUUUDD".

[James]

If he's talking 100W Valve vs. 50W Solid State (and I think he is), then the Tube amp will be much louder.

It's a jumbled post of bizarreness though, which makes me think he will indeed kill himself by putting 450V across his heart during the build.

Reading it again I think he is talking 100w solid state vs 50w solid state. It's not as confusing as I first thought but I did originally think he meant 100w tube vs 50w tube.

[Mike]

This thread is stupid.

[Will]

I did mean 50 v. 100W Solid State. I know 50W tube would be more then enough, but I can't justify the cost given that we only perform 1-2 times a month. If I stepped up to 100W, I'd just be getting a used Fender Frontman 212 or Ultimate Chorus.

Still, how about using a line-out tap to send a 5F2A or other small tube amp to the PA?

[aen]

What?

50W is more than adequate for practise unless you're in a band who plays far too loud. Are you talking Solid State Watts or Tube Watts? Solid State 50W amps are a LOT quieter than 50W Tube Amps.

A 100W Tube amp is going to kill people.

Depends how you set it. I rock an 85 watt twin reverb because of the HEADROOM. True, I only turn it up to 2 at practice, and maybe 3 if the venue is huge, but my cleans are CLEAN and can be heard along with the drummer. DSB seems to be interested in cleans, given his solid-state leanings. In which case, a lot of watts is paramount.

Still, how about using a line-out tap to send a 5F2A or other small tube amp to the PA?

A microphone would sound worlds better.

[Will]

Very good. I'll get the 5F2A kit and invest in a short mic stand for my SM57.

I'll try plugging the line-out from the Champ 12 into the PA at our next rehearsal to see if that can hold me over until I get the new rig together.

[Pens]

The style around here at least is to use a big amp and keep the PA only for vocals and maybe drums, least for most normal size venues. I dunno how things work where you are from, but singers here in STL hate sharing their PA with guitars.

Have you considered just skimming craigslist and snatching up a cheap 50w tube amp? That's what I did and I'm pretty happy with it.

[Will]

The style around here at least is to use a big amp and keep the PA only for vocals and maybe drums, least for most normal size venues. I dunno how things work where you are from, but singers here in STL hate sharing their PA with guitars.

Have you considered just skimming craigslist and snatching up a cheap 50w tube amp? That's what I did and I'm pretty happy with it.

The problem with that is we only perform twice a month and I couldn't use 50W tube for home practice. I just feel like it would be a waste.

We've already got a big PA with 8 channels - it only handles vocals and keyboard (if there's no acoustic piano); seems silly not to use the extra channels.

[Pens]

The style around here at least is to use a big amp and keep the PA only for vocals and maybe drums, least for most normal size venues. I dunno how things work where you are from, but singers here in STL hate sharing their PA with guitars.

Have you considered just skimming craigslist and snatching up a cheap 50w tube amp? That's what I did and I'm pretty happy with it.

The problem with that is we only perform twice a month and I couldn't use 50W tube for home practice. I just feel like it would be a waste.

We've already got a big PA with 8 channels - it only handles vocals and keyboard (if there's no acoustic piano); seems silly not to use the extra channels.

Putting more instruments through those channels eats up frequency, kinda like when recording you have to EQ shit carefully so that everything comes through the mix and doesn't get drowned out.

Anyway, if that's how you want to do it that's your call. I was just curious if you'd considered a cheap tube amp from CL.

[Will]

It's twice a month for fun - I just need to be heard and not sound bad.

As it stands now I can't even be heard half the time.

[dots]

It's twice a month for fun - I just need to be heard and not sound bad.

As it stands now I can't even be heard half the time.

check out the crate 50w tube combo. how can you argue w/ $200 for a 1x12 tube amp? st jimmy loves his, and i can attest to its being very LOUD.

[Pens]

It's twice a month for fun - I just need to be heard and not sound bad.

As it stands now I can't even be heard half the time.

check out the crate 50w tube combo. how can you argue w/ $200 for a 1x12 tube amp? st jimmy loves his, and i can attest to its being very LOUD.

DO THIS.

[mickie08]

DSB already got into one of these Crate tube combos and it blew up the world or something.

Look for a Roland JC 120, JC 77, or jc60. You can usually find JC120's for 400 or less if you look around and the smaller ones are just the same basic idea. I believe there is the 77 watt and 60 watt version. They have nice cleans and great chorus...But, the overdrive sucks.