CIJ Mustang 65 or american vintage - What should I look for?

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:17 pm

hi there,

I'm suffering heavy GAS and I want to celebrate the prolonging of my working contract with the buy of a Mustang. I've been wanting one for years now. 1st thing I saw was that vintage Mustangs have their price in Germany, they are in ebay for about 12oo to 2000 â‚¬, which is way too expensive. I would go to 1000 at maximum. And only if I must.

At a local shop they didn't have one, but the guy said he frequently travels USA to get guitars to Europe. 70s Mustangs he usually sells around 700 â‚¬ he said and that I should come back in about 2 months. On the other hand, that is nearly the exact prive that is asekd for a new CIJ 65 Reissue Mustang here in Germany. From my Jazzmaster I know that Japan Fenders are good quality, only the pickups are not that good in the jazzmaster. A used CIJ would be around 400 to 500 â‚¬, but these are hard to find.

So, what would you do? Spend the 700 â‚¬ on a used, maybe refinished non-collecotor- american, let's say mid seventies (if you find one for that price in germany, still not sure if I can believe that dealer ...) or a new Japan Fender? I'm really not that much affected by the vintage factor, I just want the best tone and playability for my money. Does the Japan Mustangs have decent pickups? what difference makes the wood of americans to the poplar of the 65 RI?

I tend to get a japanese one at the moment, maybe mainly because I can just buy it and have it ... but I never played an old Mustang. BUT I love maple fretboards, and the idea of a white vintage mustang with maple fretboard is thrilling. on the other hand, that search could take ages here in Germany, and the price I mentioned would not be guaranteed ...

maybe some opinios? someone?

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:24 pm

There's a nice one (a '76) in the spam thread - post a few more times to see it/buy it/galvanise Zaphod into action.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:30 pm

I have to say that the '65 RI is a fabulous guitar. I owned one and loved it, only the CREDIT CRUNCH and the fact that I owned a very similar project guitar (Duo-Sonic II) that I finished while owning the '65 RI Mustang caused me to sell it. It is a superbly made and sounding thing - I have played a lot of vintage Mustangs at teh Doogfest shortscale meetups we have here, a bunch of guys here own Vintage Mustangs, and while I think there is a very special added feel to a vintage instrument, you're really only talking about 3-5% of the actual sound and feel of the guitar. And it's not going to make the slightest difference to an audience.

However a vintage instrument (if in good nick and bought at the right price) will always raise in value and prove a valuable investment. So if you have the money and inclination, it could be the way to go. You're on the right lines to think about buying in the US though, unless you're extremely lucky, buying Vintage Fenders in Europe is a joke pricewise. There is a Dakota Red Mustang which has a lot of sizeable dings on the face (including a very ugly GOUGE near the switches) in Denmark St in London marked up at Â£1,500. An absolute joke price.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:53 pm

benecol wrote:There's a nice one (a '76) in the spam thread - post a few more times to see it/buy it/galvanise Zaphod into action.

NO NO NO

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:59 pm

yeah, these were my thoughts too ... but as I said, I cannot invest 1200 â‚¬ or 1500 BP

and if you import from USA via ebay or a2nd hand shop without ever having seen the thing and the condition and without knowing the seller ... dunno ... plus there's shipping and taxes to pay and you might easily come out by a 300 â‚¬ extra costs.

Plus, a lot of vintage stuff sold in europe is just put together from pieces. May still be a fine guitar to play, but why pay collector's prices for a refinished guitar where body, neck and most parts are from different guitars?

On the other hand, I see it that my Jazzmaster did not sink in value, as it has Made in Japan printed on it ... at least it would not have sunk if it weren't that rocked off. I bought it when I was 19 and play it for nealry 15 years now. I mean, it's still a fender, and if you keep it some years, the freaks find a reason to make it valuable, even if it's just a C for M ...

but overall, would be cool to get an american guitar for a decent price from a trustworthy person ... very interesting review I found on ebay: Anyone ever got a Mustang to these prices in Europe?

I wanted to share my experience in researching, selecting and buying a Fender Mustang guitar as an example of how I make sure I'm getting a good value in a vintage guitar. I have been collecting vintage guitars for many years and buying guitars on on EBAY since 2001. I am a player as well as a collector and prefer mid-range price guitars that I can also play.

(...)

As my database of completed sales grew, the guitars sorted themselves out in price into several categories, from highest price to lowest:
* 1960's Non-refin/original $1,279
* 1970's Competition Stripes $998
* 1970's non-comps, non refin $743
* 1960's Refins/non-original $639
* 1990/2000's Reissues $534
* 1970's refins/non-original $517
Things I learned included:
- Competition Stripe Mustangs form the '70's were next in value to '60's models
- No significant difference in pre-CBS ('65) and post-CBS ('66) '60's models
- All original, non refin '70's models were more valuable than '60's refin's
- Reissues from the 90's & 00's (made overseas) sold higher than 70's refins
The highest price ($1655) was for a 1964 (pre-CBS), original Dakota red finish, all original parts and orginal hard shell case. The lowest price ($335) was for a 1975 refinish with changed pickups.
My final choice? I bought a 1978 near mint with original case and case candy, ash body in original natural finish and rosewood fingerboard for $700. It appeared to be a good value vs. the market price (see $743 above) and I have a personal preference for the ash/rosewood combination, as it matches my favorite stratocaster (a '79) and I like the sound of ash bodies and feel of rosewood.

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:01 pm

Zaphod wrote:
benecol wrote:There's a nice one (a '76) in the spam thread - post a few more times to see it/buy it/galvanise Zaphod into action.
NO NO NO

In-joke? what happens when you are in action?

blacktaxi · Post by **blacktaxi** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:11 pm

i own a 1999 CIJ MG-66 (a 66' reissue i think) mustang and i like it.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:14 pm

kypdurron wrote:
Zaphod wrote:
benecol wrote:There's a nice one (a '76) in the spam thread - post a few more times to see it/buy it/galvanise Zaphod into action.
NO NO NO
In-joke? what happens when you are in action?

Theres a 76 mustang for sale that I really want in the classifieds but I can't afford it until january. I'm hoping that no-one else snaps it up before then.

Welcome, by the way.

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:16 pm

You mean it's still for sale since january? Weird. What do they ask for it, and where is it located?

edit: no, you mean you can afford it next month. my fault. thanks for welcome. guess I can't snap it way I need 50 posts to see it and I need to wait for december money too before buying anything like a Fender

Not even buying pedals, Pickups or Tubes at the moment, because I REALLY want a Mustang

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:55 am

I played an CIJ 65 RI Mustang in Blue in a shop yesterday. It was marked new, had still the plastic on the pickups an a checking label connected. But it played more like abused than used. easily more than a half cm distance between frets and strings on 12th, and the rosewood fretboard was so dry and bleached it almost had white spots ... the guitar was priced 840 â‚¬ after it hung in that shop for at least 3 years, crazy bastards ... that is 90 â‚¬ above online price for a fresh-from-the-box-intrument.

But the sound was great. still looking for opportunity to compare it with a vintage Fender (there are some 72 Mustangs announced in Berlin at the moment, maybe I'll just show some interest to get my hands on one for a try ...) but I think I can easily get along with a CIJ in better condition and for a better price. Will be bidding for one in ebay next days, maybe I have luck.

blacktaxi · Post by **blacktaxi** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:42 pm

i agree with what mike said. there's little difference.
i had an opportunity to play a 63' jag. i never played a new jaguar, but i didn't hear anything special in that 63's sound. yes, it was awesome, i might even say super-awesome, but still... if you're after "the mojo", go for vintage.

btw, Hurb did a close sound comparison of his jags - 69' and 00' (?), search the forum and hear for yourself

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:28 am

yeah, but I guess you cannot compare this ... I played a sixtysomething-Jazzmaster a while ago and it sounded totally different than my MIJ. This is a Demo on youtube that sounds like mine before I made some mods: (Exept for the bad setup and crappy amp). We'll see. I'll set a fair bid on a 65 Reissue tonight, and when I win, it's my Mustang. If not, I'll try a 72 refinished one on Tuesday. Not sure if I will buy it though, even if I like it, because 1000 â‚¬ seems a bit too high for a refinished one ... but maybe I can trade. Or maybe the colour is a no-go

Pacafeliz · Post by **Pacafeliz** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:20 pm

hello there!

personally, if i was you i'd stay away from the 70s 'stangs. they just don't feel right - to me at least.
if you want a cool little guitar to rock out and jump around, get a beat up 60s or a reissue - MIJ or USA. if you don't like the sound, get some decent pickups for it and you're ready to go.

viel spass auf der jagd!

Pat.

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:01 pm

thanks. I shot the 65 RI on ebay just now

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0292463113

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:19 pm

Thanks for your help. You convinced me that a used reissue is good enough for my purpose, as I don't need a guitar that is supposed to be under glass. Now that I nearly have my dream guitar, which the Mustang was since I was a kid in a Nick Cave Concert, is this the End of GAS? Must be for some months, or my wife will kill me

Next I will sell one or two guitars. Japanese 70ties Les Paul copy with bold-on neck, anybody?

Pacafeliz · Post by **Pacafeliz** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:22 pm

cool man, congrats!

dude... GAS NEVER EVER ends. it's sad but true. ok, not really sad... unless it ends in divorce or so.

liebste grÃ¼sse von einem schweizer in mexiko!

PÃ¤t.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:35 pm

I had a 69 reissue, and it was ok.

I have a 73 original and it is awesome.

A refin example like mine should be well within your budget.

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:35 pm

Danke und GrÃ¼ÃŸe zurÃ¼ck in die mexikanische Schweiz

Danke auch fÃ¼r Lucien Favre, Hertha Ã¼berwintert auf Rang 3

Yes GAS never stops as long as money comes in ... My 2nd hand Mustang needs a case. costs a hundred â‚¬-bucks at minimum, as only Fender seems to make them ... and my wife hates daphne blue, so maybe it also needs a refinish ... ("real men don't wear baby blue on stage" she said ...) and my Jazzmaster needs mouthblown custom pickups carried around the lake 7 times by red haired virgins ... because Seymour Duncan sounds bad, at least the one I have. I will sell that too.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

@ Nick: Budget has just vanished ... Maybe someday I'll trade this or another guitar in for a vintage Mustang with maple fretboard. But that can wait now