Fender Twin Reverb Pros and Cons

[timhulio]

A twin in head form is a Dual Showman. It also weighs a ton. This is a reply to someone up there. I forget.

[shae]

I think it's all subjective really. I can see Mike's take on the issue even though I love the sound of a 70s Silverface Twin. But it's the stigma I can't get over. Stupid little twat indie kids paying +$1,500-2,000 for a Silverface reverb when they DON'T NEED TO. But if I lived in the US, where a 70s twin can be had even for less than $400, I wouldn't even think twice about getting one. They're not worth the monies they go for in the UK/AU/Anywhere else besides the US as an amp of that price/calibre is likely to eat it's way into your budget... but fuck, if you can afford to buy a 70s twin reverb and a 70s vibro champ for under $1,000 for the pair... I'd go that over any 2-channel, low-wattage amp ANY day of the week.

I know I found it hard to settle on an amp... luckily, fate jumped in and I moved to a more 'music friendly' neighbourhood so my Vox is usually wide open.

[Mike]

It's all personal taste of course. I understand why people love Twins, I just think they're boring as sin.

[kim]

as a reverbjunkie i love its reverb, it's the truest of true reverb


but i'm not a fan of combos (back breaking, can experiment more with cabs with a top)


i dunno, everytime i played through one i thought it sounded great yet i never considered it for teh buyz...even if i could afford it i don't think i would feel like it'd be the amp i want.

[kypdurron]

Stupid little twat indie kids paying +$1,500-2,000 for a Silverface reverb when they DON'T NEED TO.

I payed 1.000 DM for mine, some 10 years ago. This makes about 510 € right now. Makes no sense to translate this to USD, as the USD is rather weak at the moment and the prices are generally higher in Europe. But these amps go for a minimum of 750 € at the moment, which is a good deal compared to the reissues. So the value has increased, although people desire the smaller silverfaces more at the moment.

Maybe I was such a kid back then, but this amp has absolutely paid back the money I put in it. It is the amp for life, as long as I continue to play in bands. In total, I had one repair (80 €) and one Valve change (40 €) since I have it. I am totally happy with it. Grab some different types of preamp tubes to slot in and out, and you can get a tweed sound as well as a Vox sound out of it. I would never trade it in for anything Marshall ever built. Even if this makes me a proud surf reverb pussy

[william]

I think the 3-D thing people go on about has more to do with dynamics then anything else; similar to, say, listening to a symphony on a really good surround sound vs. seeing them in concert. Live still sounds better because the range of dynamics is much greater. That intangible quality is what I think of as "3-D"

As far as translating that to amps, there are some limitations as all amps have compression. Additionally, SS amps have less compression theoretically then their tube counterparts. The difference is probably in what frequencies are compressed and how the compression is related to the input signal, with the timbre of tubes being more pleasing and natural to most players.

Without a doubt, modeling amps feature the most compression of any design and seem unnatural for it. When I think of "flat", I think of an amp which sounds basically the same no matter how I vary my playing. This would cover most modeling amps.

i dont disagree with this premise, but threedee is still a complete misnomer and everyone using it should agree on a better term. also, it probably is a tangible quality if you just know what you are hearing and about sound in general. mojo terms like "3D" are what people use when they THINK there is no word for something, because they havent done any research on the matter. i think "dynamic" is precisely the word that people are searching for when they say "3D."

unless they are talking about a cube. or a sphere. or the dimensions of the amp itself, as a form in 3D space.

the symphony comparison is an OK one, except that it doesnt really parallel the amp situation. when you experience a symphony, you really do have a sort of 3d experience going on, because of the concert hall. however you have this in your living room on your hi fi, too, the effect is just less dynamic because there is less 3d space that the sound is bouncing around in. incidentally, nobody in the intellectual world has ever called a large form "more 3D" than a small form.

[NickD]

Really Heavy
Ridiculously Overpriced
No Dirt To Be Had At All From Pre-Amp Or Power-Amp

They do two sounds. Blargh. and BLARRGH.



Everyone goes on about the clean sounds but I'm not even a fan of them, I find them completely clangy and without charm.

Point one - fuck yes, way, way too heavy.
Point two - not really
Point three - Mine had a really good dirt channel, just not quite as nice as the MM bass amp flat out.

It was too powerful and too heavy for me though, so it went.

[vivadeluxxe]

Really Heavy
Ridiculously Overpriced
No Dirt To Be Had At All From Pre-Amp Or Power-Amp

They do two sounds. Blargh. and BLARRGH.



Everyone goes on about the clean sounds but I'm not even a fan of them, I find them completely clangy and without charm.

Point one - fuck yes, way, way too heavy.
Point two - not really
Point three - Mine had a really good dirt channel, just not quite as nice as the MM bass amp flat out.

It was too powerful and too heavy for me though, so it went.

I think you had the same one as me Nick...
It has a really good drive channel which I used pretty much all the time...
Yeah the're heavy, but unless you have arms like broomsticks, the average youthful male could carry one around without much trouble...
It would be pointless having one if you're not playing fairly large gigs on a regular basis tho...

[Mike]

You both didn't have Twin Reverbs. You had the "The Twin" or "Evil Twin" models.

This thread, and teh debate, is about non master volume, non Dirt Channel Twins. I call them "Stupid Twins".

[Aeon]

For the record, I bought my Twin for $600. It was a graduation from high school present. The particular amp I bought was from a Mom and Pop type of store that used it as a rental unit (the other rentals they had were a Mesa Boogie head/cab and a Mesa Boogie combo). The thing has been used by countless different bands over the years, so it was pretty cool to get an instrument with some history.

There is no other amp that you can get in the USA that consistently beats it for money/value. These are point-to-point wired amps that have lasted in serviceable condition for 30+ years. Modern amps are typically on circuit boards, meaning that repairs and modifications would be a way bigger headache.

I have had literally no lasting issues with it in the four/five years that I've had it, and haven't needed to change the tubes yet (although I did buy a set of them when I thought the reverb channel was going -- turns out it just needed to be adjusted). They are the original, from the factory tubes. Higher gain amps also tend to run tubes hotter. My friend has already had to replace the tubes on his Marshall Bluesbreaker after only about 1.5 years of ownership (maybe they were just bad tubes, I dunno).

In Europe or the UK, where everything Fender is way more expensive, I can see the argument for there being better alternatives at lower price points. But in the States, there really isn't a better amp for the cash.

[Mike]

Any price related argument is of course related to me living my life here in England.

[nomorebridge]

I don't think there is a cheaper alternative to a twin in the UK.....or anywhere, I've never found one (and I have looked)

[Nick]

Wow that sounds like my story Aeon.

I picked up my 1970 for $500 USD from a local shop that rented it out. Yours looks to be in better shape from the picture though.

[Mike]

I don't think there is a cheaper alternative to a twin in the UK.....or anywhere, I've never found one (and I have looked)

Sure there is. You can get many, many amps that are better than the Twin for under £800.

I don't even know what to make of your statement it's so without merit.

[James]

Three-dimensional tone means nothing, it just sounds like it means something. Flat means something, although i would definately argue that marshalls don't sound flat.

Ever play a line 6 amp? They do a pretty decent approximation of the sound of a Twin Reverb. The feel, however, is completely flat in comparison to a real one. Twins just translate everything about your playing, including minor details like the direction you hit the strings with your pick. That is sort of what I'm trying to get at by describing it as "3d". It's a feel thing more than a sound thing.

I think you're just talking about harmonic detail. Plenty of amps have this too.

On the subject of watts/volume: I have a 50w Bassman. It's loud enough for absolutely everything. It's clean until high up the volume dial unless you're using some high output pickups. Only Zaphod's Cowbell Jazzmaster with a Dimarzio Super Distortion was able to push it to saturation at Doogfest. All of the single coil Fenders barely reached anything you could call even mild crunch. I don't see any need for an amp to be louder than that. Any venue that has sounds louder than that will be either damaging your hearing, or if it's for the sake of sheer size, will be mic'ing everything up anyway.

As for the general tone: The only twin I've played was a 70s silverface or some sort. I have no idea the circuit number or the details. It was way, way too trebly. I tried it in a studio (in which I'd also tried plenty of other amps) and didn't have the time to stick with it because the initial impression basically suggested it wasn't going to do the job I needed. I have grown to like the Fender clean sound and I would describe the clean tone from my amp as the best I've heard. Perhaps I'd warm to the Twin tone if I heard it now, but my initial thoughts were "how is this one of the most famous amps ever made?".

[nomorebridge]

I don't think there is a cheaper alternative to a twin in the UK.....or anywhere, I've never found one (and I have looked)

Sure there is. You can get many, many amps that are better than the Twin for under £800.

I don't even know what to make of your statement it's so without merit.

lol, I like headroom cleans an really lush reverb....does that help?

[Wilbur]

Guys, give up on convincing Mike to like the twin. It's like asking him to buy a tube screamer-physically impossible.

[filtercap]

Agreed, though a future thread titled Get Mike Drunk And Then Sell Him A Twin '09 might be entertaining, if ultimately futile.

Back to prose and corns:

Power
If you want loud and clean, this is the amp for you. PRO.
If you want loud and clean AND want footswitchable overdrive/distortion AND don't want to do this with a pedal, CON.

Tone
If the amp is biased cold, it may sound stiff and brittle. CON.
With decently biased tubes, you start getting a well-balanced, springy sound with nice compression and a dose of Fender sparkle over all. PRO.

If you just plug in and set everything at 5 or 10 or whatever, getting a satisfying tone out of whatever guitar you plug into it is a crapshoot. CON.
If you assume that your nice full sparkly sound at bedroom level will translate well once you crank the amp up to stage level, you or the person standing in the Twin's blast zone may be disappointed. CON.

If you get to know the Twin's 3-knob tone stack and discover how it responds at different volumes, you can get great sounds from a wide range of guitars and pickups. (Hint: when you're anywhere in front of the speakers, the amp delivers massive amounts of top-end at high volume -- just compensate with your handy Treble knob, eh?) PRO.

Overdrive/breakup
Twin power amps do overdrive some, and there are ways to encourage this, but it's still at arena volume. If you want power amp overdrive at club volumes, you're best off with an amp in the 40-watt range. CON.
You'll either like the Twin's preamp overdrive, or you won't. HMMM.
Of course, once you get a Twin dialed in, it supports pedal overdrive/distortion well. PRO.

Versatility
If this means lots of channels, CON.
If this means that it provides a good base for many different guitars and effects, PRO.

Reverb and Tremolo
PRO and PRO. Note that different Twins will have different reverb qualities, depending on which reverb pan model they have, and the rev driver circuitry. Some are bright and surfy, and others are darker and more subtle. Trem speed and "chop" can vary also.

Weight
The only way to get loud, loud cleans in a tube amp is to have beefy power and output transformers on board. There is no other way. If loud, loud cleans are what you need, weight comes along with them. You will take it and like it. (Incidentally, making a head of a Twin only saves you maybe 10 pounds of speakers plus a few pounds of cabinetry. The heavy transformers shall remain with thee always.) YOU DECIDE.

If you want the Fender sound, but also a power amp that overdrives at sane volumes, or if you don't need cleans at Twin volumes, you can definitely get them from lighter and smaller amps.

[James]

So, you know that award where we declare someone as bringer of science to amp discussions, do we still need to do it? Or can we just each spend 5 minutes making banners?

[superfuzz]

I love the fender twin reverb, it may be heavy, but its still awesome. Is it the best amp ever? No, that goes to super reverbs, and super sixes, and bandmaster reverbs. Is it great? Without question, much like any other fender amp of their ilk. Bassmen are great in their own right, but twins just take everything well, and are (were) cheap. I have a hotrod deville, which has one of the nicest spring reverb sounds i've heard in a modern fender amp (I may have gotten lucky though), but im sure an old twin would be compairable, or better than it.

Now a tweed '57 twin is immense, those are brilliant amps.