low watt low end?

william · Post by **william** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:03 pm

this is gonna seem nooby, but i am and it is.

i guess you could say im a t00b n00b, ive drolled over my share of super awesome tube amps, but ive only ever had one, my fender hot rod deluxe. i like it plenty, and the price was right. its not perfect but i think it was a good entry point and it is "gig worthy" (omg)

so, my question is this: ok its after the following but its coming. i have this idea in my head that small tube amps (lets say 15 watts or less) are somehow lacking in low end reproduction. i think this has to do with my experience with tiny tube amps, liek the champion 600 and such, which have tiny little speakers. i really really like low end, i play downtuned shoegaze/noise most of the time, and big low end is a primary component in my sound. i even had mike make me a mammoth for this purpose.

so, i guess my question is: if i order a really tiny matamp (like 4-10watts) and put it through a similar speaker as the HRD (12" and medium sized enclosure) is it going to have comparable low end reproduction? does this make any sense?

anyhow, let me know if i need to clarify, because i can and i will. and i love you for asking, and ill never hurt you.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:13 pm

I have had the Tiny Terror (7-15 watts) and have the Blackstar ht-5. In either case, with the right cabinet, you will not loose low end.

I think ht-5 mini stack has 2 separate 1x10 cabinets that are closed back. It also has 2 channels that are footswitcheable. It is great becuase the cabinets are small and light. Also, for smaller gigs, you can just use 1. But I do think it would sound fuller through better/larger 1x12 cabinets. But for 499 with the head and the 2 cabs the price is great.

Thw Egnater Rebel head is a great lower watt head as well (head 599, 1x12 cabinets are 249) It can go from 1 watt up to 20 and has both El and 6l6 tubes in it for a variety of tones. A little pricey if you want the full 2 cabinets and the head, but they sound great and have plenty of volume/headroom/bass

The Tiny Terror is an awesome sounding amp, but definitely has headroom issues. I don't think it lack in bass at all as long as it is through a good cabinet.

william · Post by **william** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:16 pm

those black stars are only 499? holy balls.

what im looking at is this, mostly. i think it looks great, but i dont know the cost.

four watts.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:28 pm

The matamps are fairly pricey I think.

Also, a low watt amp like that is going to have about zero headroom for any cleans and can be very touchy with pedals as the signal ia gonna be somewhat saturated all the time... This isn;t always the case of course, I have jsut found the low watt amps I have played have never been quite as pedal friendly as say a fender tube amp.

Will · Post by **Will** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 pm

It really is mostly an issue of speaker size - there's only so much low-end a single 6" like the one in the Champ can produce. The other factor is the output tube class. Class A (which all single power tube amps are) tends to be tighter and brighter overall because the single tube looses efficiency as frequency decreases. Class A/B tends to reproduce extreme low-end much more naturally. The Tiny Terror, Blackheart Handsome Devil, Vox AC15, and Blackstar HT-5 are all Class A/B. The Matamp seems to be a Fender Champ with an extra gain stage based on the specs, which would still be class A. You'd also be limited by the single tone control, as you have no ability to shape midrange response.

There's a world of subjectivity and variability here, but I'd say a Class A/B amp would give you more of the low-end you're looking for. I'd be interested to hear the Blackstar, as you get 3-band EQ and a clean channel.

edit: Yes, the AC15 isn't Class A =

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:39 pm

mickie08 wrote:The matamps are fairly pricey I think.

Also, a low watt amp like that is going to have about zero headroom for any cleans and can be very touchy with pedals as the signal ia gonna be somewhat saturated all the time... This isn;t always the case of course, I have jsut found the low watt amps I have played have never been quite as pedal friendly as say a fender tube amp.

I don't reckon you'd have to pay much more than $500 for a Minimat, and that's a hand-wired, point-to-point amp. Loads of bass on mine, and, importantly, is pedal friendly as fuck. While I'm a fan of his products more than I'm a fan of his prices, the D*A*M fella uses a minimat as his main testing rig. Cleans are lovely, but if you want great cleans, buy an acoustic you pussy.

Post by **Mike** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:42 pm

Now that I have a single channel amp I can echo that sentiment.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:45 pm

Yeah, that's right. Mike is agreeing with me about amps. OK?

*nervous side-to-side eyes*

Post by **Mike** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:54 pm

Weird innit.

Any well designed small amp will have plenty of low end pushing a decent speaker cabinet.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:08 pm

Oh, and if it helps at all, the new Minimats (Minimat 2's, they're called) have a gain pot too:

euan · Post by **euan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:10 pm

I do think it is oh so sexy.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:18 pm

I really love the old green matamps,, so much so that if I ever do get a Tiny Terror or Dual Terror (more likely) I'd love to have a green tolex enclosure for it.

This would cause problems gigging in Belfast though.

william · Post by **william** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:34 pm

benecol wrote:Oh, and if it helps at all, the new Minimats (Minimat 2's, they're called) have a gain pot too:

WANT!

i wonder if it really would be 500. thats worth saving for.

benecol, is yours basically a minimat combo? i thought it was 6w. how much was your combo, if i may ask? not sure if you said specifiically on your thread.

i still didnt get why class AB would have better bass response than class A. i understand that i wont be able to adjust the mids on the matamp, but i find that i like to leave the eq pretty flat and find my preferred tonez thru my pedal and guitar settings. maybe im missing the point or the finer details, but i find that with mikes mammoth in the front end i get all the bass i need, and then i use my Dist+ in the loop as a treble boost, and thats all the "eq"ing i really need. i may get an MXR 10 band to put after the mammoth...

which brings me to another point: where in the circuit is the eq in an amp? is it in front, or like "in there" somewhere, for instance if i put said 10 band in front of the amp, do i really need the eq? or would it be more like if i put it in the loop? does this make sense? is there a particular reason to use an onboard eq as opposed to a stomper?

euan · Post by **euan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:37 pm

Generally when you buy a Matamp directly from them they talk to you and work out what you are after. If you want a pronounced mid range they'll give you it. If you want flat or scooped they will do the same.

Benecol will be able to tell you more, but this is certainly how I understand it.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:38 pm

Mine is exactly that, a Minimat 2 combo (I fucked up in my post, will edit accordingly) - 2 watts clean, a lot more dirty. I paid Â£480 - I think the head alone is Â£350ish, which is just under $500.

Also, there's a DI on the minimat, so you can run it like a pedal for gigs: run out of it into your big amp set clean for hee-uge Matamp sounds.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:41 pm

All I know about Matamps is that they are suppossed to be good, but almost impossible to find around here. Even as much gear as I see on craigslist in SoCal, I have seen only 1 matamp for sale and it was a 100 watthalf stack for about 2K used. I doubt a matamp mini is 500 over here. I could totally be worng on that and I would love to come across one to try out.... But, shipping and importing it would probably be like 200 wouldn't it. Either way, it would be cool to look into, maybe just hard to find.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:45 pm

When I spoke to them at the factory, they said they were making loads of stuff for US customers at the moment. It's definitely worth phoning them. Even if so we can hear how you cope with Jeff Matamp's Yorkshire accent.

william · Post by **william** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:46 pm

benecol wrote:2 watts clean, a lot more dirty.

what do you mean by this? sorry if thats a dumb question.

also, you paid 680 for that amp? holy balls, thats pretty nice. i thought they were way more pricey, man.

i wonder if itd be more for me in the US, shipping has to be awful for something like that over the atlantic.

thanks for all the info, everybody.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:47 pm

benecol wrote:When I spoke to them at the factory, they said they were making loads of stuff for US customers at the moment. It's definitely worth phoning them. Even if so we can hear how you cope with Jeff Matamp's Yorkshire accent.

I agree it would be worth calling on. I just wish anyone over here actually carried their stuff so people could try it.

euan · Post by **euan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:47 pm

benecol wrote:When I spoke to them at the factory, they said they were making loads of stuff for US customers at the moment. It's definitely worth phoning them. Even if so we can hear how you cope with Jeff Matamp's Yorkshire accent.

Yeah. The weak pound has meant that there has been a increase in American customers. Its the same for Mercian, the waiting list has increased by two months because of it.