refinishing ethics: when is it appropriate?

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:36 am

not sure if we ever have discussed this openly, alot of opinions get thrown around but this is kind of a big topic in our hobby in common:

when is refinishing a vintage guitar appropriate?

i think we all have a pretty good idea of when it is not. but certainly there are circumstances where a good refin will improve the guitar or even save it from the trash heap.

case in point: my 60's italian galanti. i will take detailed pics of my guitar if necessary later, but here's what it looks like, plus one pickup and a couple square buttons:

the neck sucks, and the finish on the back of the neck is brittle and cracked, and chipping. its a really bad, thick gloss laquer, that would give you splinters i you attempted to play for real, im sure. ive never seen another neck with the finish in this sort of condition. its not worn really, just... defective. its hard to explain.

the finish on the body is great. if it werent for some asshole completely abusing it, it looks like it would have been in really nice shape for its age. it looks like someone repeatedly gouged into the finish with a blunt instrument of some kind, like an icepick with a rounded and polished end. its really weird. def. not play wear, and its very ugly.

thing is, i LOVE the shape of these guitars. i got it for i think 150 or something and in good shape they go for many times that because they are quite cool and rare.

i was considering replacing the neck with a jazzmaster neck or something, but then realised that it is a 24.75" scale

so im stuck with the sort of so so neck. even after i refin, this neck wont be great. not terrible, but just not quite there. unless someone has some ideas...?

the pickups are fucking terrible, and the electronics are goofy as shit. the accordion buttons are total shit, loosey goosey and noisey, and tend to find a (silent) neutral position no matter what settings you choose initially.

basically all i like about this guitar are the body, pickguard shape, and tremolo (which is fucking awesome.) to me its worth it to mod it and get it playable and nice looking again, without the failed original design elements.

but is it right? should i refinish this guitar, make a new pickguard and install new electronics and refinish/potentially replace the neck?

bassintom · Post by **bassintom** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:22 am

I'd steel wool or sand the neck but not ever touch the finish.Or stick a strat neck on it and keep the old neck.
Just me...No.Refinish
As far a electronics you could probably get a new PG cut and redo the pups and such still keep all the old parts tucked away

jcyphe · Post by **jcyphe** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:23 am

Re-finish whatever you want. It's your guitar.

gaybear · Post by **gaybear** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:24 am

jcyphe wrote:Re-finish whatever you want. It's your guitar.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:44 am

gaybear wrote:
jcyphe wrote:Re-finish whatever you want. It's your guitar.

this is what im thinking. ive always wanted an OTM guitar...

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:23 am

What jcyphe said. It's your guitar dude, if a refin would make you happy I say do it. Plus that thing would be fucking rad in Ocean Turquoise.

Mages · Post by **Mages** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:17 am

yea, it's yr guitar, do what you like. I would prolly just steel wool the neck though, like bassintom said.

timhulio · Post by **timhulio** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:50 am

I've a blue Hag III with quite bad finish crackling on the back of the neck. Had to take some wet'n'dry to it to take the edges off. I think a refin of the back of a neck to preserve playablility is perfectly fine. That's what these things are for. Similar to your italianate drek, I got a musima elgita with a really shit neck, and my lutheir mate is making a new one for it (he's in no hurry- one year and counting haha). I think reversible mods to cheap guitars are fine.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:08 pm

i wish it were a standard bolt on size, not too many 24.75" scale replacement necks out there. if it were 24, i could go jag, 25.5 jazz.

i whipped the neck out again to make sure. yeah, it sucks. the shape just feels wrong, i remember it having a really stiff feel, like super unnatural and not smooth at all. there is a certain amount of unnaccountable "mojo" when it comes to feel. like 1 000 000 tiny variables that determine play quality.

luke · Post by **luke** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:13 pm

I think the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar is if it's just because you want a different colour. In this situation you should either sell yours and buy the colour you want, or get over it, because otherwise you're just pointlessly wasting a piece of history that'll never return. No matter how thrashed the finish is, if it's original, let it stay that way.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:22 pm

Malik wrote:I think the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar is if it's just because you want a different colour. In this situation you should either sell yours and buy the colour you want, or get over it, because otherwise you're just pointlessly wasting a piece of history that'll never return. No matter how thrashed the finish is, if it's original, let it stay that way.

the paradox here is that it wont sell for anything in its condition.

also, i think i made it pretty clear that there is more reason here to refinish than just wanting a different color.

luke · Post by **luke** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:27 pm

william wrote:
Malik wrote:I think the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar is if it's just because you want a different colour. In this situation you should either sell yours and buy the colour you want, or get over it, because otherwise you're just pointlessly wasting a piece of history that'll never return. No matter how thrashed the finish is, if it's original, let it stay that way.
the paradox here is that it wont sell for anything in its condition.

also, i think i made it pretty clear that there is more reason here to refinish than just wanting a different color.

I think I made it pretty clear I was stating the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar, and that was if it's just because you want a different colour. Therefore if your guitar is fucked up and needs refinishing to make it playable and resalable, then why not? Just keep it tasteful and the vintage Gods will let it slide.

At the end of the day...

jcyphe wrote:Re-finish whatever you want. It's your guitar.

...is the trewest statement, but I don't think anyone will oppose if it was a necessary sin.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:35 pm

Malik wrote:
william wrote:
Malik wrote:I think the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar is if it's just because you want a different colour. In this situation you should either sell yours and buy the colour you want, or get over it, because otherwise you're just pointlessly wasting a piece of history that'll never return. No matter how thrashed the finish is, if it's original, let it stay that way.
the paradox here is that it wont sell for anything in its condition.

also, i think i made it pretty clear that there is more reason here to refinish than just wanting a different color.
I think I made it pretty clear I was stating the only time you shouldn't refinish a vintage guitar, and that was if it's just because you want a different colour. Therefore if your guitar is fucked up and needs refinishing to make it playable and resalable, then why not? Just keep it tasteful and the vintage Gods will let it slide.

At the end of the day...

jcyphe wrote:Re-finish whatever you want. It's your guitar.
...is the trewest statement, but I don't think anyone will oppose if it was a necessary sin.

i see. sorry malik, i thought by "in this situation" you meant my situation, not the hypothetical situation that you presented.

anyhow, yeah, looks like we are all in agreement. so now i just have to decide on a color... ive always liked OTM and burgandy mist.... but sherwood green cannot be forgotten.

any great places to send a tracing of the pickguard and have one made? how much does this usually cost? im thinking of putting mini hums in it, but maybe mustangs would look better...

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:05 pm

It's also worth mentioning that the guitar isn't "vintage", it's just from the 60s. I don't know a Galanti from a Chapati, so I'd mod it to my heart's content.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:31 pm

if i were willing to get a little knee deep in work over it, i could get this neck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mahogany-Angled-Pad ... .m20.l1116

itd look nice with a gloss finish, and white body. not sure what headstock shape would look good.

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:03 am

i read nothing in this thread besides the title.
if you are sanding off a burgundy mist 63 jag to make it sunburst, i would punch you in the mouth.

william · Post by **william** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:12 am

robert(original) wrote:i read nothing in this thread besides the title.
if you are sanding off a burgundy mist 63 jag to make it sunburst, i would punch you in the mouth.

are you somewhat drunk? i am working on it.

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:19 am

no, i saw this thread this morning, read the first three posts, went to work, came home, browsed thru it again, and basically said, the only problem i have is if you "insert earlier post" and think you did justice.
otherwise, do what you want, its your guitar.

DGNR8 · Post by **DGNR8** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:54 am

If it's not a collector by now, it may never be.

william · Post by **william** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:58 am

DGNR8 wrote:If it's not a collector by now, it may never be.

thats kinda what im thinking. however, they do go for a bit when they are in nice shape. ive never really seen another beater...