what's with Gavin's strat?

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:38 pm

Damn tootin'!!!

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:40 pm

Mike wrote:You're so ridiculously wrong I can't even begin to count the ways.

+ 1.

have you every tried to double track vocals that precisely? it's fucking hard. elliott smith's signature sound is his double tracking, acoustics and vocals. if you don't like that you don't like elliott smith.

and if you don't like elliott smith you should probably book yourself in for a ct scan or something.

william · Post by **william** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:25 pm

Zaphod wrote:
Mike wrote:You're so ridiculously wrong I can't even begin to count the ways.
+ 1.

have you every tried to double track vocals that precisely? it's fucking hard. elliott smith's signature sound is his double tracking, acoustics and vocals. if you don't like that you don't like elliott smith.

and if you don't like elliott smith you should probably book yourself in for a ct scan or something.

ok you guys are right.

EDIT- also, i never said the double tracking wasnt impressive or difficult (of course it is.) that wasnt even part of the discussion.

playing guitar like yngwie is really hard. taste is another matter, is it not? alot of people really like listening to yngwie because his guitar playing because it is technically difficult, but that never appeals to me and isnt the reason i listen to music. same goes for elliot smith.

why should the difficulty of doubling vocals make it more appealing for me?

there is more to an artist than the way they sound, also. i do enjoy his words, his style, his voice. the double tracking is just overprevalent in his music, imo.

i dont really see how that can be debated.

william · Post by **william** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:44 pm

i really like this. i wish he wouldve done an entire record like this. he didnt, did he?

[youtube][/youtube]

i never heard the last record, or im sure certain others. everything ive heard is doubled tho.

i do admit that its a cool effect. i just wish hed have used more discretion in using it.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:48 pm

when did you see elliott smith live mike?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:57 pm

More to the point, why hasn't somebody put together a supermegaelliotsmith pack for me to download hassle free?

I'm downloading his eponymous album now.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:57 pm

Zaphod wrote:when did you see elliott smith live mike?

ULU in like 2000. It was pretty great still.

Paul I will put something together this weekend for you.

William you should have just stopped at "you guys are right". If you don't like the double-tracking, just don't listen to Elliott Smith and don't post about him, but don't diss it. And especially don't diss it and then post a link to a song that features it, FFS. Angeles is off Either/Or, his third record, and the first recorded in a half decent studio.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:00 pm

i download figure 8 an hour or so ago because i'd never heard it and i was racking my brains out as to where i heard some of the frist song sung. i was searching google and everywhere for films it was in and stuff, even asked someone i know who loves elliott smith.

it was your bloody acoustic demo wasn't it.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:12 pm

haha I actually recorded a full band version of that myself once.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:19 pm

i was gonna post a cover of between the bars me and gareth did on 4 track but it went with the hd crash

.
it's still on tape... somewhere.

i think an elliott smith cover comp would be mega, unfortunately not to everyone's tastes.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:22 pm

I'll upload it when I upload the mix I'm making now for Paul et al.

it's not stellar, my mic was doing weird things on S sounds at the time, but it's not bad considering, definitely a fun project.

william · Post by **william** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:21 pm

Mike wrote: William you should have just stopped at "you guys are right". If you don't like the double-tracking, just don't listen to Elliott Smith and don't post about him, but don't diss it. And especially don't diss it and then post a link to a song that features it, FFS. Angeles is off Either/Or, his third record, and the first recorded in a half decent studio.

christ, mike, not everyone has to like everything you do, man. i wasnt dissing it, i was very careful to explain plainly why i didn't care for it.

and yeah, i dont listen to it, generally.

plus, that clip sounds like its "live," as it were. no double tracking that i could hear.

this is the studio version, yeah?

[youtube][/youtube]

certainly this forum isn't about only posting about stuff you like, or else there would be basically no content, right?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:30 pm

I'm uploading a mix now (you needn't bother downloading, there's double tracking ALL OVER IT, never mind the songs are ridiculously good, let's all just concentrate about minutae and post ad nauseum about it) so I can't watch that clip at the moment, but the studio version, along with all of Either/Or is double tracked. He was that good at it, that sometimes you don't even know he's doing it - same as the stereo guitar arrangements on the previous two albums which are widescreen and sound huge but so sync'd that you can't possibly imagine it's two one take performances, but it is. Because he was that good at playing the guitar. He used an analogue 4 track to record the first two records, and an analogue 8 track to record Either/Or. Only XO, Figure8 and From a Basement had what people would call "well equipped" studios, but there was still no digital editting to be seen.

He was a genius, if you don't like him, fair play - just don't blather on about something as ridiculous as the double tracking, which one tiny element of what he did and who he was as a songwriter, performer and recordist.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:53 pm

I think Elliott Smith was a fantastic musician and songwriter, but william's reason for not being into him is perfectly valid. It's not like it's an isolated technique. It's all over pretty much everything. Personally I like it and think it suits the mood of what he does very well, but I can understand why someone could even like the music in terms of songwriting and musicianship and dislike listening to any of the studio stuff because of the production. William also made a pretty calm case for it and has only mentioned it repeatedly because his logic has been challenged.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:54 pm

I just think it's a stupid reason not to appreciate some of the best songs ever written

James · Post by **James** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:58 pm

Production makes a massive difference. I think the Cash version of 'I hung my head' is superb but the original Sting song is shite. There are songs I love on record that sound rubbish in live videos, and songs that go the other way. It's definitely not negligible.

william · Post by **william** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:38 pm

Thanks, James!

Mike wrote:I just think it's a stupid reason not to appreciate some of the best songs ever written

im pretty sure i made it clear that i truly appreciated his talent and his songwriting.

and:

William also made a pretty calm case for it and has only mentioned it repeatedly because his logic has been challenged.

sorry to upset you so, mike. to be honest im shocked by the intensity and persistence of your response to my initial statement. i really feel that it was prett reasonably stated, i try not to just blanket "elliot smith sux" on things, unless i really feel that way.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:54 am

william wrote:sorry to upset you so, mike. to be honest im shocked by the intensity and persistence of your response to my initial statement. i really feel that it was prett reasonably stated, i try not to just blanket "elliot smith sux" on things, unless i really feel that way.

That's OK but to the same degree you have to expect someone to say what they really think about the music they love. I'd defend that shit til the end. It's not worth getting argumentative about.

Production is relative. There are some tracks I keep because of the production value, as in that weird wow factor some sountracks seem to capture. With ES I just think he was world class at capturing the vibe/emotion/essence/whatever the fuck you want to call it of a song. He had the ability to bring real intimacy to a song and that's a very rare thing. Think about it.

One thing he can never be dissed for is his vocal tracking. Pretty much any muso (and I mean that in a nice way) who knew his work were envious of his ability in that sense. It's cool if that's just not your thing, personal taste is exactly that. He as still fucking awesome in my book.

After all there are folk who love Oasis, and to me that's the musical equivalent of being fisted by a glove made of shards of glass glazed in pure hate weilded by someone who's mother is thier sister who never made it past 1st year of a highschool education.

Yes I really hate them)

william · Post by **william** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:57 am

yeah, oasis sucks. i always wondered why everyone in the 90s had to pick either blur or oasis. i didnt see that comparison as being very balanced at all.

chisa · Post by **chisa** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:32 am

i am starting to think that one of his best albums was "from a basement on the hill".

the picking on memory lane is fantastic - what a song - shoulda been the new dylan.

and coast to coast with the spector esque production. great stuff