Gotoh Vintage style locking tuners!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:39 am

BacchusPaul wrote:I've never had a guitar with them, but I've never had a problem that might be solved by them. The most stable guitar I own (apart from a locking-nut eqipped LTD with a Floyd Rose) is my Squier Jagmaster, with a vintage trem. With a properly cut nut, and the trem set up properly, the thing will not go out of tune. I have held that guitar by the trem bar and violently thrown it around and it doesn't go even slightly out of tune. I suspect that locking tuners aren't necessary proveded you know how to wrap a string around the capstan properly.

Yes I do and I doubt this will qualify anything unless I pump out yootoob vid on the subject,but my first teacher was a guitar tech. That also covers all the stuff about setting the vintage strat trems, a little floyd rose here and there, TOMS, Danelectro's, teles, fret leveling, nuts, truss rod etc etc. I've never found the need to stick them on a standard Gibson TOM setup however. Can't comment on Jazzies or Jags as mentioned earlier - they may be gods gift to trems for all I know.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:43 am

BacchusPaul wrote:I just seen your new sig, hehehe.

I think it makes sense to try other solutions to the problem before spending money on locking tuners. I've never felt that they would help particularly, and as fran says there are other variables that are worth looking at before the tuners. Have you finished this build yet? If I were you, I'd spend a while tweaking things and see how you get on with it. By a while I mean six months, alowing you to try different gauges of strings and that sort of thing.

Fair point and well made. The Mustang trem is totally new to me and I've not had a chance to really give it a going over - no trem arm yet! Obviously won't get to until the build is done but will take what you say into consideration when it is.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:44 am

OH YEAH, PROVE IT! /jk

Sorry of this all seems like you're getting your nuts jumped on or something, I realise that it might have come across that way. I never meant to suggest that you don't know how to string up a guitar (you've said you;ve been playing sixteen years, I'm sure you know these things). It's just that I can't see how the fault can lie with the tuners when they work so well on other setups.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:53 am

BacchusPaul wrote:OH YEAH, PROVE IT! /jk

Sorry of this all seems like you're getting your nuts jumped on or something, I realise that it might have come across that way. I never meant to suggest that you don't know how to string up a guitar (you've said you;ve been playing sixteen years, I'm sure you know these things). It's just that I can't see how the fault can lie with the tuners when they work so well on other setups.

No worries dude, I appreciate your position and input - it's new ground for me on this project and my knowledge is sketchy so all advice is totally welcome.

MaMo · Post by **MaMo** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:13 am

I just actually took the time to look at that link of the review and I'm actually quite impressed with the look of those. I like tuners that are top-loading, personally, but I think the design of those gotohs are ace. Some other brands that attempt the locking-tuner-with-vintage-looks wind up all wrong (I'm looking at you, tonepros).

william · Post by **william** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:51 am

that guy couldv'e solved his tuning problems for free by winding half as much string around the post:

On normal tuners, many tuning problems arise from having done a poor string winding job. With the Gotoh's, you don't have to worry about this at all, because it is practically idiot-proof.

if the tuners make your life better, get em.

to qualify: its less than half on some, but it looks like on the d and g strings he has it wrapped 5 or 6 times. in my experience, wrapping once over, once to twice under is perfectly enough to keep the strings from slipping, but more than that its like they never finish stretching around the post.

dont remember if i did any wraps over when i had saf t posts.

Post by **Hurb** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:24 pm

I made a little video demonstrating that if your mustang trem and guitar is setup locking tuners are not needed no matter how much you abuse your trem.

[GVideo]http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2&hl=en-GB[/GVideo]

I should point out I have done nothing but adjust what is already stock with these trems and bridge. there is no tape around the bridge or any of that shite. and the guitar is actually tuned really low too. cgcggd.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:36 pm

Hurb wrote:I made a little video demonstrating that if your mustang trem and guitar is setup locking tuners are not needed no matter how much you abuse your trem.

I should point out I have done nothing but adjust what is already stock with these trems and bridge. there is no tape around the bridge or any of that shite. and the guitar is actually tuned really low too. cgcggd.

POINT. FUCKING. PROVEN!

Hurb are they modern day Klusons or vintage? And has anyone noticed any appreciable degradation of function in vintage tuners?

Post by **Hurb** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:52 pm

Black Cat Bone wrote:
Hurb wrote:I made a little video demonstrating that if your mustang trem and guitar is setup locking tuners are not needed no matter how much you abuse your trem.

I should point out I have done nothing but adjust what is already stock with these trems and bridge. there is no tape around the bridge or any of that shite. and the guitar is actually tuned really low too. cgcggd.
POINT. FUCKING. PROVEN!

Hurb are they modern day Klusons or vintage? And has anyone noticed any appreciable degradation of function in vintage tuners?

They are modern ones I think they came of a cij Jaguar originally so I don't think they are actual kluson. but are kluson copies. called ping or something I seem to recall. might be making that up though. but any klusons are fine. It really not the tuners that are keeping the guitar in tune(obviously it is but that's not important with trem use) it's the spring, the spring needs enough tension to fight against the strings to bring em back to pitch. also you need to make sure the strings have as little restricting there movement as possible and causing friction. I.e the nut the bridge and string tree. that is all you need to consider when setting up any trem guitar.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:57 pm

Hurb wrote:also you need to make sure the strings have as little restricting there movement as possible and causing friction. I.e the nut the bridge and string tree. that is all you need to consider when setting up any trem guitar.

What do you do to these parts to ensure this on a mustang set up? Do you 'grease' the parts the string travels on with anything (graphite, vaseline, virgins tears..?) or is it more the setting of the right angles etc?

Post by **Hurb** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:07 pm

Black Cat Bone wrote:
Hurb wrote:also you need to make sure the strings have as little restricting there movement as possible and causing friction. I.e the nut the bridge and string tree. that is all you need to consider when setting up any trem guitar.
What do you do to these parts to ensure this on a mustang set up? Do you 'grease' the parts the string travels on with anything (graphite, vaseline, virgins tears..?) or is it more the setting of the right angles etc?

well the bridge on the mustang rocks, so that is sorted for you already, it is part of the lovely design for it to move, that's why it annoys me when people tape em solid.
the nut is the most important. make sure you file that shit so the strings don't get pinched and have a free movement through the nut.

the tree on fenders(on only on the thin b and e strings never have one fitted on the other strings.) is normally not a problem just make sure the string isn't catching on the metal. you can check this with the trem, tune up the guitar and move the arm down slowly, if you hear clicks then the strings are catching somewhere. find where and solve it.
You can lube the nut and t with pencil but to be honest I don't do this religiously. and only ever on really problem guitars. doesn't hurt though.

robroe · Post by **robroe** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:35 pm

do you have any videos of you playing on youtube or anything?

wanderingjew · Post by **wanderingjew** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:19 am

Look at 60s and 70s Gibsons... Even 90's and 00's gibsons, and see how many have 'tuner upgrades'

Bottom line is, most people don't know how to string a guitar.

benwalker · Post by **benwalker** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:25 am

jag/stang trems fine. as very ably demonstrated by thurston hurb...

the mustang and jag/jazz works on a knife-edge doesn't it?

i put locking tuners and an lsr on my warmoth strat - the lsr means no pinching on the nut, the tuners just mean that changing strings is a shit-load quicker. thread, clamp, done. even with a 6-screw style trem it won't budge..