Hi, I have 2 questions about the bridge on my early seventies Musicmaster guitar.
First, the saddles are quite rusted and the heads worn, so it's difficult if not impossible to adjust them. Can I replace them with the grooved style Telecaster saddles? I'm not sure if these are the same size. I found some here: Guitar Parts.
Second question: the bridge itself seems to sit very low on the body. The saddles have to be raised as far as they can to make it playable. Still the strings are just barely above the frets. The neck still has the original frets, which are quite low already. Maybe the neckpocket wasn't cut deep enough or something, the neck too high, I dunno. Does this happen more often? Is it normal?
I've been thinking about shimming the bridge to raise the whole unit a little. Has anyone here had the same experience?
Have you checked the neck is straight and not bowed (needing truss road adjustment), the stock bridge and neck pocket should line up and make the guitar easy to setup. Look down the neck from the body and headstock and see if it's nice and straight.
If it's a three saddle bridge I imagine those Tele saddles will work?
The neck is indeed pretty straight and has a very slight upward bow. Nothing out of the ordinary. It's also aligned well in the pocket and lines up with the bridge. It's not the sideways alignment that is a problem. It's just that the allen screws are almost falling out of the saddles because they have to be adjusted so high. I've already shimmed the neck in the frontside of the pocket too, to give the strings some more slack. But it's not enough.
Shimming the neck will actually raise the neck towards the strings thereby meaning you have to have the bridge saddles set higher. Try dropping the shims from the neck pocket?
If truss rod adjustment doesn't work to give you a higher break up to the nut you may want to experiment with bringing the saddles down and shimmming the neck at the neck-end OR the body end of the pocket to get it at a more apropriate angle (try both). I would definitley play with the truss first (use google to find out how if you don't know already). Make small changes, test, make changes test....just keep doing that and you'll get there. It maybe a fault or a twist somewhere in the body or hardware but rule out all options of adjustment first.
iCEByTes wrote:5 Most Jizz face maker Solo�s , classic Rock music i ever listened.
iCEByTes wrote:Blunt a joint , Take the Touch , Listen this.
mage wrote:nah, I think he means he shimmed the other end of the neck pocket.
So? That is still raising the neck?
One end shimmed will make the strings pass closer to the body end of the fret board and the other will increase the break angle and therefore height at the body end of the fretboard. Angle of the dangle up to the nut and all that. Same with truss rod....back curve will pull strings against highest point in curve of neck and forward will increase it....its a balancing act witht he adjustment of Nut and saddles too of course...
iCEByTes wrote:5 Most Jizz face maker Solo�s , classic Rock music i ever listened.
iCEByTes wrote:Blunt a joint , Take the Touch , Listen this.
Yeah I placed a shim on the headstock end of the pocket so to say. That would raise the action a little.
I already tried adjusting the trussrod, but that did not make enough difference. It's actually adjusted quite ok now. It might help just a little bit more, but only on the first number of frets. But the strings are just barely above the last fret with the saddles maxed. From this point I don't think any normal adjustment would help anymore.
Last edited by silverface on Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
mage wrote:nah, I think he means he shimmed the other end of the neck pocket.
So? That is still raising the neck?
One end shimmed will make the strings pass closer to the body end of the fret board and the other will increase the break angle and therefore height at the body end of the fretboard. Angle of the dangle up to the nut and all that. Same with truss rod....back curve will pull strings against highest point in curve of neck and forward will increase it....its a balancing act witht he adjustment of Nut and saddles too of course...
Yeah, and with any struggle with max bridge saddle settings, the sensible thing would be to drop the Shims.
One end shimmed will make the strings pass closer to the body end of the fret board and the other will increase the break angle and therefore height at the body end of the fretboard. Angle of the dangle up to the nut and all that. Same with truss rod....back curve will pull strings against highest point in curve of neck and forward will increase it....its a balancing act witht he adjustment of Nut and saddles too of course...
Yeah, and with any struggle with max bridge saddle settings, the sensible thing would be to drop the Shims.
If I would take out the shim, the neck would sit lower in the pocket at the headstock side. That would lower the action even more and make things worse ..
I guess if all these things have been tried there's no harm in experimenting with shimming the actual bridge - maybe just using carboard initially to see if a certain heigh increase resolves the issue and then you could look at something a little more neat... Must admit though unless there is a bow at the heel end of the neck like: ¬_/ where the heel end is high and then drops down and back up with truss rod adjustment I'd be surprised if that is needed - maybe it is the actual saddles themselves? Are they notched? If so have the notches worn really deep? I had to fix a les Paul recently where the teo E's has practicall eaten right down to the base and therefore where messing up the natural radius and impacting the entire setup.
The same effect could be caused by frets up the heel end being less worn than the rest giving a similar result to the neck warp scenario above. Leveling or, worst case secnario, refretting could resolve that.
I'm not convinced that more playing with what's there won't get it right before touching the bridge but hard to say with out seeing in person. Just as an example my cheap acrylocaster I removed the shims and filed down both the nut and the slots to minimum no-buzz height and then found I has to max the strat style saddes up which looked and felt wank. Despite the fact it goes counter to my previous advice and all logic, shimming the body end of the pocket and a truss rod adjustment somehow conspired to get the break over the body end frets just right and bring the saddles down. Don't get it but there you go, try all combinations!
iCEByTes wrote:5 Most Jizz face maker Solo�s , classic Rock music i ever listened.
iCEByTes wrote:Blunt a joint , Take the Touch , Listen this.
Black Cat Bone wrote:
One end shimmed will make the strings pass closer to the body end of the fret board and the other will increase the break angle and therefore height at the body end of the fretboard. Angle of the dangle up to the nut and all that. Same with truss rod....back curve will pull strings against highest point in curve of neck and forward will increase it....its a balancing act witht he adjustment of Nut and saddles too of course...
Yeah, and with any struggle with max bridge saddle settings, the sensible thing would be to drop the Shims.
If I would take out the shim, the neck would sit lower in the pocket at the headstock side. That would lower the action even more and make things worse ..
If the neck is lower in the pocket, it is further from the strings. The action will be higher, not lower.
I'll have a closer look at the neck tonight to see if it isn't warped or anything. I'll make some pictures too so we can see what I'm talking about The frets are pretty low so could have been levelled. Maybe that has not been done properly. Anyway thanks for all your replies, I'll get back to you tonight.
P.S Silverface - if you live anywhere near Southampton in the UK I'd be happy to take a look at it no charge - Might find the same result as you but can't hurt to get a second semi-proffessional go at it.
iCEByTes wrote:5 Most Jizz face maker Solo�s , classic Rock music i ever listened.
iCEByTes wrote:Blunt a joint , Take the Touch , Listen this.
Mike wrote:
Yeah, and with any struggle with max bridge saddle settings, the sensible thing would be to drop the Shims.
If I would take out the shim, the neck would sit lower in the pocket at the headstock side. That would lower the action even more and make things worse ..
If the neck is lower in the pocket, it is further from the strings. The action will be higher, not lower.
Look at it this way: if you raise the neck in the pocket on one side (headstock side) only. You'll get an angle and raise the strings. That's what the shim does in this case. Taking it out will take away the angle and thus lower the action.
Same thing when placing a shim at the bridge side of the pocket. That would angle the neck upwards towards the bridge and lower the action.
You would be correct if the shim would fill the entire neckpocket, removing it would then lower the entire neck.
The frets are pretty low so could have been levelled. Maybe that has not been done properly. Anyway thanks for all your replies, I'll get back to you tonight.