Maker of Klon Speaks!

[nomorebridge]

Interesting post, or not? Can his diode's really be all that...


Hi guys -

From what I understand, in the past couple of years there have been a number of threads on this forum and on other such forums in which purported clones of my unit have been discussed, and several times, including yesterday, people have e-mailed me with a link to one of these threads - either they wanted my take on something that had been said, or they've thought that I might want to post in response to something that had been said. Until now I have refrained from posting, but I think this particular thread offers me the opportunity to address a couple of things that might be of interest to many of you.

First off, unless I am very mistaken, no one but me can offer an "exact" rendering of my circuit, and the reason is simple: no one but me knows the identity of, or has any stock of, the components that are by far the most important components in the circuit sonically, which are the two germanium diodes in the clipping stage.

These, in conjunction with the carefully-tailored opamp clipping in that stage, provide the kind of distortion that sounds organic and natural to me (and apparently, given the long-term success of the Centaur, to a lot of other people as well), and with one exception - see below - none of the many other germanium diodes I have tried sounds anywhere near as good in the circuit.

During the last year or so of the circuit design process (four-and-a-half years, 1990-1994) I ordered quantities of every germanium diode I could find available anywhere, and then I spent weeks listening to multiple pairs of each one in the nearly-finished circuit. There was a clear winner, and although that particular part had been obsoleted by the manufacturer (they had ceased production of it), I found a distributor that had been stuck with a pretty huge number of them when some big corporate customer they had stocked them for evidently suddenly stopped using them; the decision-guy at the distributor was very, very happy to be able to unload all of them on me at a bargain price.

I have made sporadic efforts over the past fifteen years to see if more of them might be floating around out there, contacting various firms that specialize in obsoleted/NOS components, but with one minor exception (twenty-some-odd diodes at an utterly ridiculous per-piece price) I have struck out; if one or another of the would-be cloners can figure out which exact part I use (component designation AND manufacturer) and can find that little fly-by-night firm (if it still exists), and if the fly-by-night firm still has those diodes and the would-be cloner can't believe his luck and is willing to pay the utterly ridiculous, take-it-or-leave-it per-piece price I was quoted, then at least in theory he'll have the chance to build and sell ten-plus pedals with a truly cloned circuit, pedals that sound the way mine sound, and the way I worked extremely hard to make mine sound.

Note that the diodes matter only if you want to use the circuit to add some dirt; in clean-boost mode the clipping stage is completely bypassed and out of the signal path. If you're looking to use the circuit as a boost only, and it doesn't matter to you whether or not the dirt sounds the same as it does when using one of my units, then I imagine that any of the purported clones should do fine, assuming that the would-be cloner has done his homework with regard to copying everything else it took me four-and-a-half years of hard work (and a significant financial investment) to figure out.

With regard to the also-ran diodes, they fell into three broad categories: the completely hopeless, can't-get-there-from-here category (the great majority of them), the not-hopeless-but-not-great-either category (using any of these would have required at minimum changes in the values of a number of clipping-stage components, and more than likely changes in clipping-stage topology as well, with no guarantee of eventual success), and all alone in the third category that one alternative diode that sounded pretty good - not as good as the one I use, but way better than any of the others in the circuit as it was/is (alas, it's also long out of production).

So . . . where does this leave you, if you're someone who wants what the Centaur has to offer and also happens to have no ethical qualms about considering a purported clone? Well, if you're not the kind of person who feels comfortable asking a would-be cloner something along the lines of "So, have you listened to multiple pairs of sixty or seventy or eighty different germanium diodes in the circuit like Finnegan has?", you might want to simply ask him: can you offer me any proof that the diodes Finnegan uses are the exact same ones you yourself are using in the clones that you swear are "exact" or "sound just the same"? If your would-be cloner brushes off your question, and claims that these diodes make a minimal difference or no difference at all sonically, you can tell him that the designer of the circuit begs to differ.

Shifting gears, for your consideration I'd like to point out a few things that you may agree pertain to the ethics of the would-be cloners' activities, and then I'll point out a few things that pertain more to the practical effects of those activities.

Ethics first: I began work on the circuit, and on the product that would become the Centaur, in 1990 - next year I will have a full twenty years of my life in this. It's how I make my living, and given that there seem to be quite a number of people selling or at least trying to sell purported clones of the single product I make, it seems inarguable that my ability to make a living - with the thing I created from scratch - has been compromised; to what extent is anyone's guess.

Before 2007, when the freedom fighters over at ************** took it upon themselves to offer the results of my hard work to anyone and everyone who wanted it, when people on one or another of the forums were encouraging each other to clone my circuit or just generally hoping that someone would, the chief ethical justification seemed to be "Everyone knows it's just a slightly-tweaked Tubescreamer" - we don't hear that one any more.

Also before the freedom fighters struck their righteous blow, on various forums - including this one - I saw other justifications: that anyone should be able to build a copy of my original circuit (or a copy of one of Paul Cochrane's original circuits, or a copy of one of Zachary Vex's original circuits, etc.) for their own use - whatever one's opinion on this, I think a lot of people would consider it debatable (as I do).

That if the circuit were successfully reverse-engineered and all of the relevant info made public, "nobody would be looking to make money off of it; we simply believe that everyone has a right to this information and we expect they'll behave responsibly" - by now it should be clear how well this particular argument holds up. And lastly, that the Centaur is "too expensive", and that therefore
someone or everyone should clone it as some kind of public service. Well, if it's not the market that determines how well or poorly a product sells, and therefore whether or not it's "too expensive", then who does make that determination, and moreover, who has the right to make that determination?

Imagine for a minute that you're at work wherever you work, and some complete stranger comes up to you and points a finger at your face and says, "I think you make way too much money, so you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to systematically try to destroy your ability to make a living."

Do you think that would be a good feeling, having an encounter like that? Well, that's how I feel in the position I find myself in through no fault of my own, and I know it's also how Paul Cochrane feels and how Zachary Vex feels, because I talk with those guys sometimes - the feeling that no matter how smart you are, no matter how inspired you are, no matter how hard you work, and no matter how well you understand the market for your products and potential products, you may well end up having little or no control over how well you do.

If you find yourself agreeing that this would not be a good feeling, then maybe it will inform your perspective on the ethical issues surrounding cloning.


Now I'll turn my attention to a few of the practical effects of the would-be cloners' activities. If at some point I can no longer justify continuing to build and sell Centaur units, then certainly - as I'm sure many of you know - not only will your option for getting a unit at the lowest possible price ($329 plus shipping) be gone, but almost as certainly your other options for getting a genuine unit - ones available on the used market - will become more expensive as well, and quite possibly much more expensive.

The would-be cloners and their defenders will claim that it's all about giving the consumer more choices; well, those activities could easily end up giving the consumer fewer choices, and denying the consumer what would otherwise have been his or her first choice.

In answer to the obvious question, whether or not I have any plans to cease production of the Centaur, I will simply reply "No comment"; please don't call or e-mail to try to get anything further from me on this - please be advised that I will reply only "No comment." Lastly, what do you suppose is the effect of the would-be cloners' activities on the likelihood that someone whose products have been cloned (with whatever degree or degrees of accuracy), and whose ability to make a living has been compromised, and whose fundamental sense of risk/reward and investment/reward has been affected, will continue to see the sense in working hard to develop innovative products that people will want if they come to market?

Whatever you happen to be a consumer of, if it can be easily and cheaply copied, sooner or later you could just as easily find yourself with fewer and worse choices, not with more and better ones.

Take care,

Bill Finnegan
Klon
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Don't know what I think about what he's saying here.... I agree in principle I guess but I think he's getting his knickers in a big twist, compared to how Paul C dealt with the Timmy/Dano business.

I have no idea about the technical stuff he's talking about but I have Mike's klon at the moment and it's a good pedal with or without his mind bending diodes. I genuinely don't understand why if he has some diodes that sound pretty good even they are not the real deal he doesn't just make a klon lite for half the money.... that'd sort it out.

[timhulio]

Z Vex has original circuits? lole.

Um yeah. What're the fucking diodes anyway? I don't think anyone has cloned this pedal in serious quantities, or that the sort of people who're intested in a cloned Centaur overlap much with the cork-sniffery market for this pedal. Only thing that'd make this guy stop building them is running outta diodes.

Hmmm. Freestompboxes has the diodes as 1N34A, and they spent a whole lotta time de-gooping and tracing this pedal. Very odd.

[Will]

Klon Centaur = just a dirt pedal.

[the isaac eaton]

Klon Centaur = just a dirt pedal.

Statement of the year

[brambleperro]

Ethics first: I began work on the circuit, and on the product that would become the Centaur, in 1990 - next year I will have a full twenty years of my life in this. It's how I make my living, and given that there seem to be quite a number of people selling or at least trying to sell purported clones of the single product I make, it seems inarguable that my ability to make a living - with the thing I created from scratch - has been compromised; to what extent is anyone's guess.

I certainly don't know the story here, but what I see is this:

He worked on it for 4 years, wrapped it up in 1994. 13 years later, in 2007, the schematics are made public, and his livelihood is compromised. I'd say 13 years of livelihood from 4 years of design process is a pretty good break, yeah?

[jcyphe]

The whole thing read like a big threat of: "i'm going to take my ball home and end the game". What nonsense.

I need to jump on freestompboxes.org and see the reacts to this

[Haze]

One way or another, he can only sell "X" number of pedals due to having ONLY "X" number of diodes. He can't make any less money because people will still be paying for them until he runs out, at which point he can't produce the "same" pedal.

Sure, clones might be slowing down his business a little, but he can only do a set amount of business due to the diodes. Whats the big fuss?

[aen]

That was a really long post, yo.

[Mike]

Magic diodes my arse.

[euan]

Current only runs one way?

[Mike]

I knew about the diodes, so I tried shitloads in the two that I have built. One for myself which nomoerbridge now owns via Haze, and another as I had a leftover PCB from a trade. I messed with the diodes a lot (I have many, many different Germaniums). Guess what? It sounds great with loads of different types in there, and I left the ones that sound the same as the demos I have heard.

[theshadowofseattle]

It's kind of a shitty thing to do, but idk.

I've only ever owned one hand-made pedal (to my recollection, that is), which was a simple dual loop. I'm not effected or effecting the whole handmade stompbox market, which seems pretty lame to begin with. Seems like a bunch of mojo arrows and useless noisenik crap. "IT'S JUST LIKE A FUZZ FACE, NOW WITH SELF-OSCILLATION!!"

[Mike]

I'm not going after his business. If someone begged me for a Klon I wouldn't make them one, that circuit is a pain in the arse.

I built one for myself and eventually sold it on for the cost of parts. I made no money on it.
I built the second one because I acquired the PCB in a trade and a guy asked me to make it for his birthday present from his girlfriend (who the hell are these women?).

Fair enough if people go out after him advertising cheaper Klon clones and using his name and trademark and all that jazz, then that's not exactly ethical, but I don't think anyone is really doing that. Plus he'll never have his business affected, all the lawyers that buy Klons are all mental about the clones - "only a Klon sounds like a Klon" etc. He has a massive, fervent fanbase.

[Mike]

which seems pretty lame to begin with. Seems like a bunch of mojo arrows and useless noisenik crap. "IT'S JUST LIKE A FUZZ FACE, NOW WITH SELF-OSCILLATION!!"

:-/

[mickie08]

The bottom line is that if the design is that original and hard to make, no one's going to clone it that fast or cheap for awhile (at least in any quantity).

If this dude has been resting on his laurels not making a newer design for 15 years, then he has no right to claim that he is being really hurt by this. You only stay in business through product innovation, not draggin out the market as long as you can feed off it. Otherwise when he runs out of KLON chips what's left. If he has other products that are good, a few KLON knockoffs should not be really affecting him.

He just seems a little bit too muched attached and also a little to stuck up about the whole thing. If that magic chip is such a huge difference then the crowd he is shooting for will not really buy the cheaper versions. These are the same people who won't by an upgraded Squire or Epi because of the name.

[theshadowofseattle]

which seems pretty lame to begin with. Seems like a bunch of mojo arrows and useless noisenik crap. "IT'S JUST LIKE A FUZZ FACE, NOW WITH SELF-OSCILLATION!!"

:-/

Except MBM, which is, of course, 100% Shad endorsed and mojo-free.

[Mike]

which seems pretty lame to begin with. Seems like a bunch of mojo arrows and useless noisenik crap. "IT'S JUST LIKE A FUZZ FACE, NOW WITH SELF-OSCILLATION!!"

:-/

Except MBM, which is, of course, 100% Shad endorsed and mojo-free.

I'm not a business though per se, I don't build up stock generally, I just build pedals for people when they want them. Only recently through various things (people ordering and backing out/having to make prototypes/making pedals so I can put them on the website) have I actually built pedals that were not built with one person in mind, to their exact specs.

I haven't forgotted about the DEW booster either, that will be hilarious. It's fairly quiet at the moment so I might punt Benecol about some graphics.

[theshadowofseattle]

It's going to be my Xmas gift to myself. I earned it!

MBM needs a DEWBOOST to wash down all that salt.

[Mike]

haha. Noted. Check your stocking.

[Reece]

ITT: Klon maker speaks, is exactly how I suspected him to be.

If he wasn't the one who made them he'd be on FSB defending them 'til his face turns purple.