skinny strings

[gaybear]

maybe everyone is just gripping too hard during their masurbatory sessions.

[Will]

maybe everyone is just gripping too hard during their masurbatory sessions.

Yeah, but that's my right hand.

I hate fret buzz. I bring the action up until, no matter how hard I hit the strings, there isn't any buzz.

[aen]

I can sort of puss my way through a coupletones on itty bitty factory strings, but at home it's 11-54s on full scale, 12-56(?) on short scales, and 13-70 on SUPERLOWDOOMTUNED full scale electric death magicians.

[robroe]

i was over at drews on saturday playing, and after a couple hours in the basement, his dad came down, made fun of my flowery amp and then asked if he could play a little on my mustang. he put it on.

1. ohh my god the strap is so short
2. whats wrong with these strings? they are fucking huge?
3. the action on this thing is too god damn high why don't you lower your action?


what the fuck dude, get out of the fucking basement and go guitar wank on your 7 strats that hang on the wall up stairs.

[paul_]

I use 10-52s or 11-52s on all my guitars and address problems where they occur. They're all fixable without using stupidly large strings and sky-high action, even on shortscales. Hell, I'll say "especially on shortscales" since we're generalizing.

[Noirie.]

3. the action on this thing is too god damn high why don't you lower your action?

Are any of your guitar necks bowed from those MANLAND strangs?

[robroe]

not that i can tell

[ekwatts]

I've gone light and airy-fairy recently. After a brief dalliance with some 10-60 Zakk Wyldes on my Batwing, I've moved back to using 10-52's on guitars that are just nicely set up. It's a joy. For my Dano, I'm using 11-54's or something, and I think that's what I've got on the Jaguar, too. I'd tried full 12's, but I didn't really like it, and they had a plain G anyway which was just stupid (if you're going above 20 for a G string, then just make it wound, nonces).

I think the only thing I'd change about my strings right now is that I would definitely prefer a wound G in all sets. The problem is, I use D'addario 11s for the Dano and Jag and GHS for the two Burns's'ss's's and I can't seem to find anywhere that sells individual D'addario or GHS strings, and I like to use the same brand strings. I don't know why really, it isn't at all noticable once they're broken in. Well, apart from Ernie Balls, of course, because they're a bag of shit.

[Justyn]

I'm sticking to nines for now

I got a couple packs of 11s if I feel like a change

[aen]

3. the action on this thing is too god damn high why don't you lower your action?

Are any of your guitar necks bowed from those MANLAND strangs?

No, they all have truss rods. Guitars were designed for 13s when they were invented in the 50s and 60s.

[Dave]

On 25.5 scale I used to play 11 / heavy bottoms for years but irepairable joint damage made me drop to 9's for a while and for the last couple of years I'm back on 10/heavy bottoms. I'd love to go a little heavier but my ladylike hands physically won't cope any more and I'm not risking giving up guitar like I very nearly once did.

As reported in my Guyatone thread I've had a weird experience. My '59 Guyatone LG60 is a 23" scale guitar and came set up with 9's as seems standard. Top E was a bit flimsy but the resonance and brightness struck me straight away so I made the assumption that 12's would be frikking incredible in that case.

I got some, popped 'em on, strummed and widdled for 5 minutes and took them straigh off. They actually killed the guitar dead - sustain became shockingly bad to point where the G string just went 'thunk' and died. This was with high action and not due to any set up issues whatsoever. Seems contrary to normal experience with shortscales - maybe it was the Ernie Ballshits I bought. I've now stuck on D'addario 10/Heavies and it plays and sounds great.

Does anyone have any hard science on the relative string guage to scale ratio and the sound factors that result? Imma gonna look into it.

EDIT: This sounds like what I got with the 12's...maybe:
"So, the player reasons, if the .058 sounds good, how about a .065? Here's where we cross the line: the stiffness of a .065 string at the D18 scale length is too great. The string can't divide up into enough harmonic nodes to render a pleasing tone, or a precise, sustained pitch. Yet, that same string on a 34" scale bass sounds great. One of the laws of string vibration relates to stiffness: stiffness implies a certain limit to the number of divisions a vibrating string can accommodate. "

EXCELLENT STRING SCIENCE AND STUFF

[NickS]

Yes.

Here's something I prepared earlier, in http://www.shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16439

Warning: some science here.

Rayleigh's wave equations give you:
2f= sq.root(T/uL²) where f= frequency, T= tension, u = mass/unit length and L= length
Therefore, to maintain f and T constant, uL² has to be constant; if L reduces, u must increase. Therefore to maintain same tension and same tuning, a shortscale requires a string with greater mass/unit length, i.e. heavier gauge.

this site is pretty interesting even though it seems primarily geared towards classical guitar.

Excellent reference.

Anyway, some further thoughts, working the formula:

Tension vs. string dia. Remember that a change from .010" to 0.011", a 10% change in diameter, equates to a 21% increase in cross-sectional area and hence 21% increase in mass/unit length. To maintain the same frequency at the same length you'd need a 21% increase in tension. At the original tension you'd get a note about 10% lower (frequency proportional to square root of tension, remember) - say a G (196 Hz) instead of an A (220 Hz). So if you have a guitar you keep in a funny tuning (e.g DADGAD) you might want to bear in mind that 10% increase in dia. should give you about a full tone drop at the same tension

Tension vs. scale length To keep the rest constant, tension varies with the square of length. Drop scale length 12% and you'll need to drop tension by the square - 25.4%. To see how that feels on a 3/4 scale, detune your guitar a little over a full tone. A Jaguar is about 6% shorter than a Strat, so detune by about a semitone to see how that feels.

Scale length vs. string dia. A Stratocaster is 25.5" scale, a Swinger or 3/4 scale Mustang is 22.5" scale, a 12% drop. Keeping frequency and tension the same, you want (mass/unit length) x (length)² constant. But mass/unit length is proportional to diameter², so that means you want to keep length x diameter constant - so 12% increase in diameter. Seems to me that to keep the same tension on a 22.5" 3/4 scale as on your 25.5" longscale a change from .010"s to .011"s is about right.

Moving from a Strat to a 24" scale Jaguar, 6% drop in length, maybe you want to think about upping from .010"s to those fancy .0105"s some string-makers sell. Otherwise you'll need a 12% decrease in tension.

Anyone still awake?

[Dave]

Thanks Nick , much apreciated. I'm going to have to reread that a few times for sure to fully grok but I get the jist of it! Any ideas why the 12's would sound so dull and decrease the sustain over the 9's?

[NickD]

Depends on the guitar.

My LP has 9s, the Jazzmaster 12s.

Most of my guitars have 10s though, the vintage mustang included, and that is awesome to play.

[George]

Having recently started a thread about this, I favour lighter strings for the slinky tone and bendability but they cause problems.

11's on the Jag
8's on the electric 12 string
10's on everything else

Still pretty light compared to some of these monster guages.

[NickS]

Thanks Nick , much apreciated. I'm going to have to reread that a few times for sure to fully grok but I get the jist of it! Any ideas why the 12's would sound so dull and decrease the sustain over the 9's?

I'd only be guessing, I've got no formula. Are you confident that the strings were resting in the bottoms of their slots in the nut?

[Dave]

I'd only be guessing, I've got no formula. Are you confident that the strings were resting in the bottoms of their slots in the nut?

Emabrrasingly enough I didn't check that for sure - good idea. I saved them so will try again at some point. I won't do any work on the actual slots in case It doesn't work out however in terms of the resonance if I just put them over the tops of the nut that should be a pretty good blind test. The nut is not glued in so I can position it and drop the G on there or something.

[Josh]

i've wanted to use lighter gauge strings with my guitars for less tension and a more slinky feel.
but whilst on stage and the adrenaline is flowing, they feel slinky. so i just deal with all the tension.
that and it's made my fingers really strong to adapt.