Rewire Duo-Sonic from parallel to series?

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:02 am

I've gotten just enough advice from a few forum members to begin thinkin seriously about rewiring my Classic Vibe Duo-Sonic pickups switch so the mid position is in series rather than parallel. Thanks Phil and Keegan who've been helpful already!

Because I'm relatively new to electric guitars, I'm continuing to do my homework. And I'm learning some of the questions I need to ask:

Like, how would you predict or describe the tone this mod will produce...will it be noticeably different?

Will it diminish the volume in the other two positions, neck only & bridge only?

Will I have to get a new switch, like an on-off-on switch, to do this?

Any risks or a downside I need to consider first?

Thanks!

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:15 am

As far as I know, the current switch will do fine, and the mod will be completely reversible. The sound of two pickups in series is a little fatter than parallel, and will be a bit louder. This will make the other two positions sound quieter but they will be as loud as they are now.

EDIT: If you want to be really clever, you could get a four way switch. That way, you'll be able to have all four combinations (bridge, bridge+neck(series, bridge+neck(parallel), neck). This might be a bit unnecessary, though. It's up to you.

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:26 am

EDIT: You're going from the current parallel to series? Then you need an ON-OFF-ON.

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:29 am

I wouldn't recommend doing a four-way switch, the CV Duo's pickguard is aluminium and would be a pain to change things around. Definitely have a new pickguard made to preserve the original should you change your mind. I'm sure someone makes a DP4T you can put in but i've never ran across one [albeit i've never looked].

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:10 am

BLK: Pickup 1 +
WHT: Pickup 1 -
RED: Pickup 2 +
GRN: Pickup 2 -

People who actually know about guitar wiring: this'd work, yeah? Not for four-way, just for bridge-series-neck with a on-on-on.

edit: solid arrow at the top to output, lined arrow-looking-thing at the bottom to ground. sorry bout the drawing.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:44 am

Ok so this'll save you from having to alter the pickguard I THINK (I've never actually don't any of this wiring or any wiring in general so this is mostly conjecture on my part run it by an expert first)

Assuming that this switch works like on/on/on type 2 in this,

THEN

BLK: pickup 1 + (to output)
WHT: pickup 1 -
RED: pickup 2 +
GRN: pickup 2 - (grounded)

Fuck me that's a terrible drawing. Anyhow to the left is the 4pdt, to the left is a push-pull pot. The 4pdt selects neck/together/bridge, the push/pull decides whether "together" is series or parallel. I think.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:09 pm

Your current wiring is most likely something like this:

The best example of an "SPDT center on switch" is the pickup switch used on guitars with 2 pickups (the Gibson Les Paulâ„¢, the Gibson SGâ„¢, etc).

Pictured above is the pickup switching diagram for a 2 pickup guitar.
On the right is a single pole double throw switch (SPDT) center on switch.
The middle connection is the 'common' terminal and this is where you connect the output wire. (This is the wire that goes to the volume control or may go directly to the output jack).
Basically, when the switch lever is in one position, the neck pickup is active and in the other position, the bridge position is active.
In the 'middle' switch position, both pickups will be 'on'.
This SPDT center on switching arrangement is extremely common on 2 pickup guitars.

Source.

That configuration uses a SPDT switch, and the pickups are wired in parallel. When wired that way, you will hear a slight decrease in volume when the middle switch position ("both pickups on") is selected. When one or the other pickup is selected individually, it will sound slightly louder than when the two are selected together.

When wired in series, the opposite is true. You will hear an increase in volume when both pickups are running together. The sound of the individual pickups will be the same as it has always been, but they will appear to be a bit quieter in comparison to the sound of the two pickups wired in series running together.

If you want series wiring, you're going to need to add a switch. I would use a push / pull DPDT switch equipped volume or tone pot for that... but you can find a ton of different wiring diagrams with various switch configurations at this site:

http://www.geocities.jp/dgb_studio/index_e.htm

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:12 pm

Since we are on the subject of parallel and Series in a duo sonic, Is it possible to add Series option to a Mustang using the two stock pickup switches?

Since the Mustang has 2 different positions where the pickups are in parallel, could one be wired in series and the other be left in parallel?

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:14 pm

My first post was trying to do it so he didn't have to buy anything new. It'd work, right?

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:16 pm

All this information is really good...and I understand most of it! The next step is to find a good tech who can read what y'all have suggested and say, "Oh, I see...yeah, no problem."

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:25 pm

Doug wrote:All this information is really good...and I understand most of it! The next step is to find a good tech who can read what y'all have suggested and say, "Oh, I see...yeah, no problem."

Haha if he says "WTF is this guy smoking?!" please tell me! This is the wiring I'm planning for another project!

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:34 pm

scandoslav wrote:
Doug wrote:All this information is really good...and I understand most of it! The next step is to find a good tech who can read what y'all have suggested and say, "Oh, I see...yeah, no problem."
Haha if he says "WTF is this guy smoking?!" please tell me! This is the wiring I'm planning for another project!

Thanks for the disclaimer...

Shaguar · Post by **Shaguar** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:09 am

taylornutt wrote:Since the Mustang has 2 different positions where the pickups are in parallel, could one be wired in series and the other be left in parallel?

No you cant do that. A pickup by itself cannot be either in series or parallel with itself. It has to be in series or parallel with another pickup.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:23 am

Doug wrote:All this information is really good...and I understand most of it! The next step is to find a good tech who can read what y'all have suggested and say, "Oh, I see...yeah, no problem."

The tech will be over the moon to see you. It's a five minute job that he can charge a fair chunk for.

If I were you, I'd think about spending the money on a soldering iron and learning how to solder. This is probably as easy as soldering gets, and it's a useful skill to have if you're a guitarist.

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:37 am

Go here...

...and download the series / parallel PDF file. It has a good explanation and good diagrams.

My first post was trying to do it so he didn't have to buy anything new. It'd work, right?

To be honest, I had a difficult time trying to understand your diagrams.

But I don't know of any way that you could take a standard three way (center on SPDT) switch and wire it for series / parallel operation, or even just series with the option of selecting either pickup individually, as well as both simultaneously. You really need a second switch, or at bare minimum, you'd have to replace the stock SPDT with a DPDT switch.

It CAN be done with Mustang (slider) switches by converting it so you're using using one as a three position pickup selector, and the second for the series / parallel switching, but I really don't think it can be done with a stock SPDT three way. At least not without an additional switch.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:49 am

The toggle switche on the CV duo is dpdt, not spdt.

(edit: And honestly my ideas are the results of a spectacularly shaky understanding of guitar wiring. I'm more than willing to accept that they could be spectacularly wrong. I'm miserably bad at illustrating things quickly.)

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:57 am

Shaguar wrote:
taylornutt wrote:Since the Mustang has 2 different positions where the pickups are in parallel, could one be wired in series and the other be left in parallel?
No you cant do that. A pickup by itself cannot be either in series or parallel with itself. It has to be in series or parallel with another pickup.

I don't think I explained what I meant clearly. With both switches, there are two options that give you both pickups in parallel in phase. Could one of those options be changed to parallel and the other option be series?

For example, If both switches are in the left most position, that could be wired to series in phase and when both switches are in the right most position that could be parallel in phase.

xShifty · Post by **xShifty** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:29 pm

scandoslav wrote:
BLK: Pickup 1 +
WHT: Pickup 1 -
RED: Pickup 2 +
GRN: Pickup 2 -

People who actually know about guitar wiring: this'd work, yeah? Not for four-way, just for bridge-series-neck with a on-on-on.

edit: solid arrow at the top to output, lined arrow-looking-thing at the bottom to ground. sorry bout the drawing.

On most 3-way switches, everything on one pole connects together in the middle position, so with this wiring everything would be connected to ground and you'd get no sound.

Would work fine with most 1/4" on-on-on switches they sell at guitar stores, but you can get an on-off-on for the same price or cheaper(since you only need a SPDT to do it).

(Works with D, doesn't work with C)