fuzz pedal/tuner problem- AM CONFUSE

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:58 pm

i noticed something tonight when i was playing about with fuzzes: i'd been playing through my harmonic percolator on its own, and i thought it sounded pretty beastin', so i thought i'd A/B it with my fuzz factory to see how they compared. to do this i just plugged in my board (where the fuzz factory is) and took an output through the HP and into my amp. when i clicked on the HP again it sounded really weird. kind of treblier, with a sort of clangy metallic edge and a hint of phasing about it (like there was a slight envelope on the signal or something). i started following the signal path back through the pedal chain, unplugging each one until i got to the TU-3 tuner... and it still did it. the fuzz factory does the same thing. sounds clangier/thinner when the tuner is before it.

could this be some sort of weird bullshit with the buffer in the tuner not reacting well to germanium fuzzes? has anyone else noticed anything similar? i can upload a wee sound clip to illustrate what's happening if anyone wants to hear what i'm on about. now i'm paranoid that all my pedals are affected in the same way to lessening degrees and that i've got a shitty signal that i've never noticed before.

i've a horrible feeling i'm going to have to completely dismantle my board and A/B every single pedal with and without the tuner. FFS!

Post by **Hurb** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:17 pm

Yes fuzz pedals are twats when it comes to other pedals. tis somthing that bugs the hell out of me and it's just a case of trying all options to find the best compromise. which it will be. the only way to get a fuzz pedal sound it's best is to have guitar-->FUZZ-->amp.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:27 pm

fuck sake, how annoying.

i've uploaded the clip but dunno if the stream player thing's working. double annoying!

► Show Spoiler

edit: it is working... first snippet is guitar>HP>amp, second is guitar>tuner>HP>amp.

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:54 pm

The fuzz is basically emphasizing what the buffer does to your signal. Increased output impedance and more treble in general. I preferred my mbm sunface fuzz with a buffer before it and a lot of guys keep their fuzz factories in the middle of their chain while some demand it be first.
Kind of like how my ect goes honky crazy when I use my jags strangle switch.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:03 pm

Haze wrote:Kind of like how my ect goes honky crazy when I use my jags strangle switch.

that's exactly what it sounds like, but all the fucking time.

i'll just have to expeeriromennnt with positioning.

chrismakesgod · Post by **chrismakesgod** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:51 pm

This has pissed me off for months with my fuzzes. I just pushed them to the front of the chain and had the tuner after them. But, ive just had a brainwave. My tuner has a bypass out jack thingy. Would having the fuzzes plugged into that and joining them up with the rest of the chain through a stereo pedal make them sound better?

___ ____
| R|---------------|TU3|
| |-----|fuzz|---| |
___ ____

Really really bad drawing, i know. So the top 'line' (Lead) between the Reverb pedal (R) and the Tuner (TU3) is where the rest of my pedals go, and the bottom line (from the bypass jack) is where my fuzzes go, meeting the rest of the chain through input B of the reverb pedal.

It's too late here to try this, and all my pedals are at my drummers house, but i'll try it first chance i get. Or, if anyone knows if it will work, let me know?

I hope this makes as much sense as it does in my head, other wise, ive wasted hunners of time typing and drawing this that could have been spent drinking beer.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:02 pm

it has to be in front of the TU-3 unfortunately, because both outs are buffered. this would be fine, except- i use the TU-3 as a splitter, as i use two amps, and if the fuzz is before the tuner it means it goes through both amps. this would cause problems for me, so isn't really an option.

i had a brainwave, and thought i could use the two outs on my bad monkey, and stick it in front of the tuner with one out and bypass the tuner completely with the second out (i have a seperate kill switch for that channel). unfortunately, the bad monkey also has a fucking buffer, and it sounded rubbish. FFFFFUUUUUUU-

so, after much brain wracking i've just stuck it at the end of the chain again, i'll just have to put up with it for now. i thought about trying my 3 way splitter box, but a) it's huge, that's why i don't use it anymore, and b) it also has buffered outs. maybe i should buy a true bypass tuner and stick a wee buffer at the end of my chain.

MORE EXPENSE!

chrismakesgod · Post by **chrismakesgod** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:18 pm

Aw. Thats mega shite. I think the only option is to chuck the tuners out the window.

aen · Post by **aen** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:48 pm

Cool fuzzes h8 tuner buffer.
i just put my tuner in a special little tuner out on my volume pedal.

Post by **Hurb** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:27 am

I basically am having the same problem because of splitting my signal into the bass amp with the oc-3 the great destroyer stops making any cool noises so I can't really use it. the ufo fuzz and behringer super fuzz seem fairly unaffected though. sucks great balls of balls.

Progrockabuse · Post by **Progrockabuse** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:33 am

stewart wrote:it has to be in front of the TU-3 unfortunately, because both outs are buffered. this would be fine, except- i use the TU-3 as a splitter, as i use two amps, and if the fuzz is before the tuner it means it goes through both amps. this would cause problems for me, so isn't really an option.

i had a brainwave, and thought i could use the two outs on my bad monkey, and stick it in front of the tuner with one out and bypass the tuner completely with the second out (i have a seperate kill switch for that channel). unfortunately, the bad monkey also has a fucking buffer, and it sounded rubbish. FFFFFUUUUUUU-

so, after much brain wracking i've just stuck it at the end of the chain again, i'll just have to put up with it for now. i thought about trying my 3 way splitter box, but a) it's huge, that's why i don't use it anymore, and b) it also has buffered outs. maybe i should buy a true bypass tuner and stick a wee buffer at the end of my chain.

MORE EXPENSE!

If your wanting to troubleshoot. i could send you my polytune for you to test it with.

Progrockabuse · Post by **Progrockabuse** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:34 am

bugger, remembered it only has one output.

you could borrow my MBM true bypass looper, if that'd help?

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:16 am

Progrockabuse wrote:bugger, remembered it only has one output.

you could borrow my MBM true bypass looper, if that'd help?

how does that work in terms of inputs and outputs? is it just a straight one in / one out?

Progrockabuse · Post by **Progrockabuse** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:57 pm

it has one in and one out, then a send and return on the top.

The loop is switchable on and off and theres a gobal saltbooster, also footswitchable.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm

hmm... dunno if that'd be any use as i have to have the fuzz at the start of the chain but then split the signal before it gets to the tuner so the fuzz doesn't affect both amps. thanks for the offer rob, i'll have a think about it.

in fact, all i need is a plain old signal splitter with one input and two outs. it doesn't even need to be switchable. surely i could buy something like that off the shelf somewhere? if it isn't a buffered thing there might be some volume loss though, is that right?

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:50 pm

stewart wrote:in fact, all i need is a plain old signal splitter with one input and two outs. it doesn't even need to be switchable. surely i could buy something like that off the shelf somewhere? if it isn't a buffered thing there might be some volume loss though, is that right?

I have a Loopmaster A/B/Y box I could sell you if you're after a splitter. True bypass so no buffers I guess. Also works with no power, but the LED's won't light - but I guess if you're going to set and forget this won't matter. It's about the size of a Phase 90. PM me if interested.

I'm actually coming up to Edinburgh on thursday, I could bring with me.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:22 pm

it would have to split so that both channels are always on, i don't flip between amps. does it do that?

if so i'd be interested depending on how much you want for it, i'd have to double check it didn't affect the fuzz sound before commiting to it though.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:53 pm

It has two switches, one to switch between A and B and one to turn both on or off. If you like you could pick it up from me and take it away to try it, if it's not suitable either give it back before I head home or post back to me. You could have it for 30 quid.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:16 pm

cool, so you can have it sitting there passively with both signals on?

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:42 pm

You certainly can. This is the exact one I have.

http://www.loop-master.com/product_info ... ucts_id=40