question regarding muff

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:51 pm

Recently I was having a convo with someone regarding the op-amp versions versus others and if there really is a difference. I mean the pedals StompUnderFoot make really sound different to my ears. Now I have seen the video that visual sound did regarding the op amp myth busting and understand where they are coming from as the pedals on there didnt sound much different (as far as I could tell) but for some reason I still feel as though the op amp does affect the muff sound. I guess my question would be besides the actual op amp do those big muffs have other changes from the rest that do affect the sound/signal?

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:02 pm

see for your self..

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... i.jpg.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... o.jpg.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... s.gif.html

Post by **Mike** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:01 pm

Op-Amp sounds completely different.

In my experience NYC, Green Russian and RAM's head are all Muffs but do sound distinct.

The NYC was more smooth and compressed, and quieter.
Green Russian had more mids and was brasher and more my cup of tea.
RAM's head is more scooped.

Earth · Post by **Earth** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:06 pm

Opamp muffs sound different for sure. I have a 78 IC muff and its definitely different than versions with transistors.
No doubt about it whatsoever.

I lined up all 12 (11 now) of my muffs and tested them against each other, all 10 transistor versions are similar, but still different to one another naturally. Then you turn the OpAmp muff on, its just another beast altogether.

BTW, not one of my muffs sounds similar enough to the others to warrant getting rid of some....I have this many cause I used to collect them.

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:08 pm

Thanks for all the diagrams but honestly that shit looks like chinese to me haha. Yeah that was my argument with my friend. Alot of the time most of the muffs sound similar to my ears except the Civil War one which sounded much lower and heavier for some reason but the Op Amp sounded completely different. Where as my friend said he heard no difference. Thats why after watching that myth buster vid I was confused.

analogsystem · Post by **analogsystem** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:19 pm

I love them all, and agree with what everybody's saying about the Op-amp muff sounding the most different from all the others. That said, I use only one muff at a time and basically for the same purpose. I can use my op-amp or my greeny for the same parts in our set.

I have heard every muff (until recently) sounds a little different because EH used whatever components could be had easily. That's why there are dudes out there on forums showing gut shots of triangle and rams head muffs with different caps and stuff inside, but all stock.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:23 pm

Earth wrote: BTW, not one of my muffs sounds similar enough to the others to warrant getting rid of some....I have this many cause I used to collect them.

I am jealous.... I have 2 currently, I just gave one(my 3rd) to my cousin... He is sixteen and his band does shows about every other weekend, he diserves free cool shit....

Earth with a collection like that I think ur Sig should be the Muffin Man!!!! ((hellyeah))

Post by **Mike** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:29 pm

analogsystem wrote:I have heard every muff (until recently) sounds a little different because EH used whatever components could be had easily. That's why there are dudes out there on forums showing gut shots of triangle and rams head muffs with different caps and stuff inside, but all stock.

So true, hence the PNP RAM's heads with positive ground. You just KNOW Mike Matthews found a job lot for cheaps.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:39 pm

I actually read an article about a famous guitarist (I think Eric Johnson???) that would get like 10-20 muffs at a time and pick out about 3-4 that sounded the best and return the rest..... this just shows how they use to vary

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:50 pm

SGJarrod wrote:I actually read an article about a famous guitarist (I think Eric Johnson???) that would get like 10-20 muffs at a time and pick out about 3-4 that sounded the best and return the rest..... this just shows how they use to vary

Then again Eric Johnson also believes that by putting his tubedriver on a specific piece of wood it affects his tone.........I have yet to figure out if its a joke or not but he has been known to be a big tone stickler.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:58 pm

I can honestly care less about Eric Johnson, I'm not a fan at all....

No offense to anyone who is, he is just not my cup of tea..... But I have heard weird stuff about him too, most of it sounds like mumbo-jumbo but I can say that in this case the Muffs do differ that much.......

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:05 pm

Interestingly enough I sent a few clips to my dad just as an experiment to see what he thought as it would be an unbiased opinion being that he doesnt play guitar or anything. And he said the same, they all sounded similar however slightly different. He liked the Civil War among all the transistors but then heard the op-amp and said "thats the one".

Earth · Post by **Earth** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:08 pm

SGJarrod wrote:
Earth wrote: BTW, not one of my muffs sounds similar enough to the others to warrant getting rid of some....I have this many cause I used to collect them.
I am jealous.... I have 2 currently, I just gave one(my 3rd) to my cousin... He is sixteen and his band does shows about every other weekend, he diserves free cool shit....

Earth with a collection like that I think ur Sig should be the Muffin Man!!!!

HAHA, Muffin Man.

Here they are:

Believe it or not I actually have the battery door and wooden box for one of my greenies. The smallest black sovtek with big ass knobs isn't actually a sovtek anymore, I built a ramshead inside of it.
Of the U.S variety theres: 1981 3034, 1978 1322, 2000RI, 2008RI, BMPTW, Backwards controls LBM.

Heres the one with the box:

Got a link to this so called "mythbuster'D Big Muff" thing?

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:16 pm

[/quote]Got a link to this so called "mythbuster'D Big Muff" thing?[/quote]

Here is the video I was talking about. Its not really about the muff but just op-amps in general.

[youtube][/youtube]

Earth · Post by **Earth** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:31 pm

Cool, I always said that this "MOJO IC" crap was just that, crap. Its a sales pitch.

However, comparing an OPAMP muff to a TRANSISTOR muff is totally different. They use different parts altogether so of course they will sound different.

Even two identical muffs can sound different....one word, tolerances. Its that simple.
I don't believe all this crap about the "magic" ramshead or triangle muff transistors that skreddy and his ilk spew out, its all bullshit.

Most muffs sound great regardless of the transistors so long as you stick by a few requirments. Being, transistor hFE being around 500-600 and use the right value resistors and capacitors in the right places. Stock Sovteks sound like crap IMO and the reason is they use .1uF coupling caps and can you believe .047uF caps in the 2 clipping stages...this value is ridiculous here IMO. It should be at the very least 220nF, ideally 1uF.

EDIT:spelling and info.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:36 pm

Is it just me or are the Little Big Muffs terrible? Had one, sold it and swore off big muffs for years, Then I built a Mayo and was brought back to the Darkside

Earth.... have you checked out the 4 knob Earthquaker Hoof, Germanium Muff with mid control, and it actually cleans up with your guitars volume knob?

http://proguitarshop.com/store/effects- ... uzz-p-1816

My next pedal to build is the 78 opamp Big Muff....

Mike, When u build the IC muffs do you use the 741 and the 4558 or have u tried the Motorola 1458 instead of the 4558? Just asking cuz I have a few of the 1458's on hand

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:38 pm

Earth wrote:Cool, I always said that this "MOJO IC" crap was just that, crap. Its a sales pitch.

However, comparing an OPAMP muff to a TRANSISTOR muff is totally different. They use different parts altogether so of course they will sound different.

Even two identical muffs can sound different....one word, tolerances. Its that simple.
I don't believe all this crap about the "magic" ramshead or triangle muff transistors that skreddy and his ilk spew out, its all bullshit.

agreed...all you need is 4 2n5089's or 4 BC549's

Earth · Post by **Earth** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:40 pm

Yeah, stock LBM's sound like shit too. I modded mine. Oh, but wait....you cant mod SMD! Thats another interwebz myth.

I know Mike has a vero layout for the IC muff. I have a PCB layout for the 77 and 78 version but its designed to fit into a big EHX BMP box as a "retrofit" for a NYCRI so its not much good for little pedals. gausmarkoff also has a small PCB layout for the IC muff if you check that site.

When you buy the IC's just get off the shelf IC's that smallbear sells.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:49 pm

Earth wrote:Yeah, stock LBM's sound like shit too. I modded mine. Oh, but wait....you cant mod SMD! Thats another interwebz myth.

I know Mike has a vero layout for the IC muff. I have a PCB layout for the 77 and 78 version but its designed to fit into a big EHX BMP box as a "retrofit" for a NYCRI so its not much good for little pedals. gausmarkoff also has a small PCB layout for the IC muff if you check that site.

When you buy the IC's just get off the shelf IC's that smallbear sells.

I have the vero layout already, its one of the links in my first post in this thread, it will easily fit in a B box, I just know that the 4558 and 1458 are the same ic on paper, I just did not know if they are sonically the same..... I always order from smallbear but I had bought a couple 1458's from a local shop for some reason

SpaceFace · Post by **SpaceFace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:51 pm

Earth wrote: I don't believe all this crap about the "magic" ramshead or triangle muff transistors that skreddy and his ilk spew out, its all bullshit.

Thats why I appreciate coming on here and talking to all the builders because none of them here pull your chain or blow smoke up your ass; everyone is honest about stuff. Its crazy how much those skreddy pedals go for. There was one I saw the other day on ebay (probably still there) that was up to over $750 with nearly 15 bids going on it.