Jazzmaster Shootout: J Mascis vs Classic Player

[Earth]

Gold ano, sure does look like shit but you can always paint it or get black ano or some shit.

[SKC Willie]

I'm still calling shenanigans.

Maybe I'm just jealous that I can't hear the difference.

[Earth]

Dude, no shenanigans, I never heard it first few times I played 'em in stores but there is a difference. Don't ask offset, them snobs will automatically say ano is better.
I only ever noticed it on JM's. But JM's are a very hollow guitar for a solid body.

About strats, they sound different with the back plate off, I don't know if its cause its plastic or what but there is a difference there also.

[laterallateral]

One of the things that make Telecasters sound the way they do is how the bridge pickup is encrusted into the bridge plate, right?
It's not like if that feature was absent on an otherwise classically configured Tele, you be all like "This sounds 100% not like a Telecaster" or anything but it's possible that you'd nottice something different.

Aluminum pickguards affect the way a pickup sounds in a similar way.
Not that I really give a crap but personally, this is not the kind of sound that I associate with Jazzmasters because It seems the celluloid/plastic guard versions became the standard pretty soon after they were released which is what? two years after the first ones?

[Earth]

I don't know all that much about JM history except that I preferred the sound of the ano versions. I know the ano wasn't on them long though. Dunno how many years but by around 62 they were celluloid.
And you're right, its not a 100% difference but its a difference.
Anyways, I'll stick with 24.75" and 24" guitars, they feel better to me.

[hotrodperlmutter]

i don't really buy it either, especially with the jazzmaster. i know people swear up and down about it, but i'm skeptical, no less.

i could see with an anodized pickguard on a stratocaster, or mustang, because both of those guitars have pickups that attach via the pickguard. jaguars and jazzmasters have pickups that connect into the body, with a layer of foam sandwiched between. the pickguard never factors into any absorbing of string resonance that would come through the output.

the only explanation i can come to is that the andoized guards succumb to those extremely minute vibrations, and those are picked up by the pickups... but how much can a flat piece of metal vibrate when screwed down flat to a piece of wood, and is it long enough to transfer to the pickups in order to be noticed by human ears?

[Fran]

One of the things that make Telecasters sound the way they do is how the bridge pickup is encrusted into the bridge plate, right?

Partly, but purists will argue about the brass used on older models.
Brass nuts, bone nuts, plastic nuts.... does it effect tone? Fuck me, why has everyone ignored my post? Maple caps were added to Les Pauls to brighten the sound of the dull mahogany. Did he know nothing? Is a scratchplate any different to a cap? NO. ITS THE FUCKING SURFACE OF THE GUITAR.[/Pens] And of course routes make a difference, what is a Thinline Tele? A swimming pool route will effect a guitars sound as oppose to tight routes. Dense mahogany is the key behind a Les Paul Juniors great tone, stick a 59 P90 on some mdf body and it will sound different.
I cant believe any of this is up for debate.

[Earth]

i don't really buy it either, especially with the jazzmaster. i know people swear up and down about it, but i'm skeptical, no less.

i could see with an anodized pickguard on a stratocaster, or mustang, because both of those guitars have pickups that attach via the pickguard. jaguars and jazzmasters have pickups that connect into the body, with a layer of foam sandwiched between. the pickguard never factors into any absorbing of string resonance that would come through the output.

the only explanation i can come to is that the andoized guards succumb to those extremely minute vibrations, and those are picked up by the pickups... but how much can a flat piece of metal vibrate when screwed down flat to a piece of wood, and is it long enough to transfer to the pickups in order to be noticed by human ears?

Dunno, don't care, just sayin'.

One of the things that make Telecasters sound the way they do is how the bridge pickup is encrusted into the bridge plate, right?

Partly, but purists will argue about the brass used on older models.
Brass nuts, bone nuts, plastic nuts.... does it effect tone? Fuck me, why has everyone ignored my post? Maple caps were added to Les Pauls to brighten the sound of the dull mahogany. Did he know nothing? Is a scratchplate any different to a cap? NO. ITS THE FUCKING SURFACE OF THE GUITAR.[/Pens] And of course routes make a difference, what is a Thinline Tele? A swimming pool route will effect a guitars sound as oppose to tight routes. Dense mahogany is the key behind a Les Paul Juniors great tone, stick a 59 P90 on some mdf body and it will sound different.
I cant believe any of this is up for debate.

Lets all play these: (they sound the same)

[lorez]

diddley mojo, sweet

[Fran]

the only explanation i can come to is that the andoized guards succumb to those extremely minute vibrations, and those are picked up by the pickups... but how much can a flat piece of metal vibrate when screwed down flat to a piece of wood, and is it long enough to transfer to the pickups in order to be noticed by human ears?

Its about a porous surface dude. Mahogany is open grain, maple is closed grain, metal/acrylic/lucite has no grain. Open grain absorbs vibration/sound, it is dull sounding. A rosewood neck is completely different to a maple neck, agreed?

If you think it is complete bullshit then write to Les Paul and tell him his theory behind maple caps was an aesthetic money spinner. He wont argue, people on Shortscale clearly know way more.

[SKC Willie]

One of the things that make Telecasters sound the way they do is how the bridge pickup is encrusted into the bridge plate, right?

Partly, but purists will argue about the brass used on older models.
Brass nuts, bone nuts, plastic nuts.... does it effect tone? Fuck me, why has everyone ignored my post? Maple caps were added to Les Pauls to brighten the sound of the dull mahogany. Did he know nothing? Is a scratchplate any different to a cap? NO. ITS THE FUCKING SURFACE OF THE GUITAR.[/Pens] And of course routes make a difference, what is a Thinline Tele? A swimming pool route will effect a guitars sound as oppose to tight routes. Dense mahogany is the key behind a Les Paul Juniors great tone, stick a 59 P90 on some mdf body and it will sound different.
I cant believe any of this is up for debate.

Of course a scratch plate is different than a cap. A cap is wood and a scratch plate is (usually) plastic. that is why the cheap guitars are made out of plastic and most guitars are made out of wood. and I do believe routes make a difference. Sure, the pick guard probably does make some difference. my argument is that it doesn't make a significant amount and that in a blind test, you couldn't tell the difference.

[hotrodperlmutter]

the only explanation i can come to is that the andoized guards succumb to those extremely minute vibrations, and those are picked up by the pickups... but how much can a flat piece of metal vibrate when screwed down flat to a piece of wood, and is it long enough to transfer to the pickups in order to be noticed by human ears?

Its about a porous surface dude. Mahogany is open grain, maple is closed grain, metal/acrylic/lucite has no grain. Open grain absorbs vibration/sound, it is dull sounding. A rosewood neck is completely different to a maple neck, agreed?

If you think it is complete bullshit then write to Les Paul and tell him his theory behind maple caps was an aesthetic money spinner. He wont argue, people on Shortscale clearly know way more.

i really don't follow you on this one. you're talking about wood. i'm talking about metal vs. plastic pickguards.

AND I CAN'T WRITE TO LES PAUL BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE ADDRESS TO HEAVEN YOU FUCKING JERK.

[Earth]

A blind test in person, sure ya could! Online via MP3 etc, I doubt it.

If you get the chance at a store near you that has one of each JM try it out and get a friend to pass you guitars and see if you can tell.

What Fran is saying is the truth. Although it'd be a bit hard to write to Les Paul as he's dead! LOL

[benecol]

He wont argue, people on Shortscale clearly know way more.

That and the fact he's dead.

[laterallateral]

I think we can all agree that EVERYTHING about how a guitar is made contributes to the way it sounds.
It's a waste of time to get into the better/worse game outside of personal taste but I think that the matter regarding just how significantly these contributions affect sound is very much worthy of discussion.

[Earth]

This reminds me of a TGP discussion about capacitors and how they (mojo ones) sound different.LMAO

[SKC Willie]

A blind test in person, sure ya could! Online via MP3 etc, I doubt it.

If you get the chance at a store near you that has one of each JM try it out and get a friend to pass you guitars and see if you can tell.

What Fran is saying is the truth. Although it'd be a bit hard to write to Les Paul as he's dead! LOL

I literally have never seen a Jazzmaster at any of the Guitar Stores I visit.

So, are you saying you can tell the difference in tones between the Classic vibe duo-sonic and the 90s MIM duo-sonic because of the pickguard? I'm not saying that you can't hear a difference in tone between a normal Jazzy and the J Maics Jazzy. What I'm saying is that because of changing so many OTHER things, I don't believe the pick guard is the major contribution between the changing of tone.

I want to listen to the same Jazzy with a plastic guard, an anodized guard, and no guard.

[hotrodperlmutter]

I want to listen to the same Jazzy with a plastic guard, an anodized guard, and no guard.

WE NEED TO DO THIS.

[Stuart]

The Les Paul thing, is what philosophers call an appeal to inappropriate authority... For all the things Les Paul was, he wasn't a physicist and that is who you'd have to ask.


I don't know.

The pickups create an electro magnetic field that is disturbed by the metallic strings. And it is hard to say how anything else makes much difference. I mean nuts and bridges probably alter the way the strings move but scratch plates, I really don't think so. Wood? I'd like to think so, but no one has every explained to me how the type of wood could change the sound of the pickups.

[Earth]

A blind test in person, sure ya could! Online via MP3 etc, I doubt it.

If you get the chance at a store near you that has one of each JM try it out and get a friend to pass you guitars and see if you can tell.

What Fran is saying is the truth. Although it'd be a bit hard to write to Les Paul as he's dead! LOL

I literally have never seen a Jazzmaster at any of the Guitar Stores I visit.

So, are you saying you can tell the difference in tones between the Classic vibe duo-sonic and the 90s MIM duo-sonic because of the pickguard? I'm not saying that you can't hear a difference in tone between a normal Jazzy and the J Maics Jazzy. What I'm saying is that because of changing so many OTHER things, I don't believe the pick guard is the major contribution between the changing of tone.

I want to listen to the same Jazzy with a plastic guard, an anodized guard, and no guard.

Never heard either of those let alone played them.

Here's what I think, If you put an ano PG on a mustang I don't think you'd hear any difference. Why? because its not a HOLLOW guitar, its only routed for the parts, there's no spare room inside. On a jazzmaster there is a lot of space inside creating an acoustic chamber (jagmasters have it too), now what it sounds like depends on the top materia to a certain degree, be it aluminum, plastic or cardboard.

Its not a big deal to me as I don't intend on buying one anyways. Just noting my observations.

Play loud enough, with enough gain (I only ever played them straight into an amp) and you probably couldn't even hear it. Play relatively clean or clean and you can.

Lots of things change the sound of a guitar, even the gauge picks you use!