True bypass reverb pedal.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:48 pm

Recently i've been using my Marshall Reflector reverb at the end of my chain. I like the sound but I think it is effecting my tone somewhat, I think i'm loosing treble and bite from my sound. As far as I know these pedals are not true bypass, just wondering what reasonably priced true bypass reverb pedal are out there that I could try instead.

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:31 pm

I was under the impression that they all affected your tone to some extent. Once you turn them past 10/11 the wet signal starts to become more noticeable and reduces your overall volume.

I've got a EHX Holier Grail and while I do love it, if you go anywhere past 12 on the blend knob, it massively changes/reduces your signal, but I thought that was pretty unavoidable?

I love reverb though so I can live with it and it's not noticeable to anyone but me anyway

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:33 pm

Waiting for the Winter wrote:I was under the impression that they all affected your tone to some extent. Once you turn them past 10/11 the wet signal starts to become more noticeable and reduces your overall volume.

Sorry, I should have stated that the tone loss is when the pedal is disengaged. Obviously I expect my guitar to sound different when I engage my pedals.

lorez · Post by **lorez** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:42 pm

I had an email today about a new TC Electronics Reverb pedal, maybe worth taking a look http://www.soundsgreatmusic.com/product ... everb.aspx

Post by **Doog** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:45 pm

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johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:48 pm

Thanks. That TC pedal looks good and the kind of thing i'm after, however I was looking to spend a bit less. I suppose I could start saving my pennies though.

Post by **Doog** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:50 pm

I think once you're mixing "digital reverb" with "true bypass", the price starts to creep waaaay up.

Have you got a buffered tuner at the start of your chain?

timhulio · Post by **timhulio** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:51 pm

Wonder how the Hardwire is true bypass. Anyone know if there's a relay in there?

I use a Behringer RV600 (with trails turned off) and there's zero tone suck. Imagine the Boss reverbs are just as good, although not as cheap!

Post by **Doog** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:54 pm

Apparently the Holy Grail and its Nano equivalent are true bypass too:

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Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:00 pm

A true bypass reverb might actually make things worse even if the Marshall does have shoddy bypass.

A good buffer will give you your treble back.

I think half the people that want true bypass don't even understand what it really is or means when it comes to your guitar sound.

timhulio · Post by **timhulio** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:29 pm

I agree with Mike. It wasn't always that way.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Mike wrote:A true bypass reverb might actually make things worse even if the Marshall does have shoddy bypass.

A good buffer will give you your treble back.

I just assumed a true bypass pedal would sort my problem out because when I had another true bypass pedal in the position I didn't have a problem. I am open to the idea of having a non-true bypass reverb, other than the Behringer what other options are there for non-true bypass reverbs with ace buffers?

I have a Korg DT-10 at the start of my chain by the way.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:09 pm

johnnyseven wrote:I have a Korg DT-10 at the start of my chain by the way.

It might not be enough to have one buffer if you have a lot of TB pedals in your chain and long cables to guitar and amp.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:59 pm

Mike wrote:A true bypass reverb might actually make things worse even if the Marshall does have shoddy bypass.

A good buffer will give you your treble back.

I think half the people that want true bypass don't even understand what it really is or means when it comes to your guitar sound.

Can you expound more on this? What does true bypass do to the guitar sound? I have heard this mentioned before but always assumed true bypass would "remove" the pedal so it would not affect the tone when it was not engaged?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:03 pm

It does, but it also means you could have a massive length of unbroken cable between your guitar and the amp, in all the patch leads, wires to and front the switch in the pedal, and your guitar cables. All this cabling introduces a big fat passive capacitance which rolls of your top end and in extreme cases can rob you of attack and cause audible distortion of the signal.

Buffers produce a high impedance at the input and low impedance at the output to break up this loading down of your signal.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:09 pm

Another question about buffers: Tim has sold Klon buffers, which seems an excellent idea. What difference would different buffers have on the tone? Is that something that ought to be considered, like is do different buffers have different tonal characteristics?

avj · Post by **avj** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:38 pm

More good reading on true bypass stuffs:

Case Against True Bypass [Pete Cornish]
"True-Bypass" revisited [David Lamkins]
How many true-bypass pedals is too many? [David Lamkins]
True bypass, cables and buffers [David Lamkins]

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:29 pm

avj wrote:More good reading on true bypass stuffs:

Case Against True Bypass [Pete Cornish]
"True-Bypass" revisited [David Lamkins]
How many true-bypass pedals is too many? [David Lamkins]
True bypass, cables and buffers [David Lamkins]

Just seen all this - cheers for the science, it's something i've never really fully understood. Seems you're damned if you do and damned if you don't really. Just use the ears I guess, much as i hate the phrase. By the way did anyone check out the Pete cornish pedals....HOW MUCH????? LD-1 buffer...not far off 200? Seems a lot but maybe the builders in this thread know better about the tech inside it.

jumbledupthinking · Post by **jumbledupthinking** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:33 pm

Maybe a silly noob question, but will it negate this situation if you have a "set it & forget it" pedal that's always on? I rarely play without a little bit of reverb dialed in on my Holy Grail plus (but wondering whether to stick my SD-1 back on my board purely for buffer purposes?) Think I'll experiment with this...

avj · Post by **avj** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:23 pm

Dave wrote:
avj wrote:More good reading on true bypass stuffs:

Case Against True Bypass [Pete Cornish]
"True-Bypass" revisited [David Lamkins]
How many true-bypass pedals is too many? [David Lamkins]
True bypass, cables and buffers [David Lamkins]
Just seen all this - cheers for the science, it's something i've never really fully understood. Seems you're damned if you do and damned if you don't really. Just use the ears I guess, much as i hate the phrase. By the way did anyone check out the Pete cornish pedals....HOW MUCH????? LD-1 buffer...not far off 200? Seems a lot but maybe the builders in this thread know better about the tech inside it.

I think it's just that the man is a well-regarded as a true craftsman, and examples like this, this, this, and this illustrate why his equipment is so expensive. The build quality seems bulletproof and indestructable, and it seems he's been at this for at least a million years.

I'd pay Pete God Damned Cornish a grand to bend a turd into a Hammond 1590V enclosure, then I'd thank him dearly for even bothering to sell it to me.