Fender Jaguar Classic Player: Quest for the Amber Switch Tip

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:08 pm

Can anyone give me a a fair measurement/guesstimate on how much a MIM Classic Player Jag/Jazz Trem has been moved toward the bridge?

I know some folks have noted that they were put off by how far forward this brought the arm on the CPs and I'm having something custom whipped up and want to approximate the normal place the end of the arm falls on a Jag.

Thanks!

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:14 pm

isn't the arm a bit shorter to compensate?

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:26 pm

Even if it isn't, just pull the tip off, whip out the hacksaw and sort it oooooooouuuuuuutt you slaaaaaaaag

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:13 pm

Do an Gilmour.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:36 pm

Haha you're going to think me a total nonce but I'm getting a stay trem for it.... Chap said he could supply a shorter arm. Now I'm looking at it I think they have shortened the mim arm but... To be frank I like a knob in me hand where it falls naturally. Going to plump for a stubby!

As long as it fits the CP I'll report back on my quest for a well placed arm.

avj · Post by **avj** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:52 pm

I can measure these things on mine when I get home in a few hours if you'd like; also bear in mind that the trem arm is of the screw-in variety.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:00 pm

avj wrote:I can measure these things on mine when I get home in a few hours if you'd like; also bear in mind that the trem arm is of the screw-in variety.

Thanks avj - no worries about the measurement - looking at mine and pics of normal jags the knob falls just over the control plate on both so pretty sure they compensated the length.

Yeah I mentioned to the seller its a screw in but the arm comes witha new collar as well. Any problems he'll refund the whole thing and pay the postage back to him! Really good service so far!!

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:19 pm

If it's a screw-in arm (a lot of them are on the CPs), check and see if the hole goes all the way through the block/plate, or if it has a bottom. If there's a bottom, just drop in a biro spring dipped in vaseline and it'll hold the arm in place without having to resort to that ugly fucking stay trem abortion.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:28 pm

benecol wrote:If it's a screw-in arm (a lot of them are on the CPs), check and see if the hole goes all the way through the block/plate, or if it has a bottom. If there's a bottom, just drop in a biro spring dipped in vaseline and it'll hold the arm in place without having to resort to that ugly fucking stay trem abortion.

Au contrair mon ami - the jag one looks just like the normal arm. I considered the spring thing however it would still wiggle in the collar and I've had my fill of plumbers tape. Don't get me wrong i know this is verging on amber switch tip territory but i love a smooth trem and not planning to do anything else....maybe a bridge pup swap, maybe not. mmmmmmmmmm

avj · Post by **avj** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:23 pm

(Congrats on the purchase, by the way! I was too thick to put that together earlier. Is this the one from lorez?)

Interesting discussion, this. I've always just been satisfied with a limp arm and a straight plug coming off the guitar; this causes it to fall and stay in the same place when I let go instead of whipping around like a pinwheel. I tried some Teflon tape in there to tension it a bit, but I found myself compulsively making ridiculous micro-adjustments to the position of it while playing.

No, that's not a good angle! My hand is going to bump it while I'm strumming. Shit, now it's too low for me to grab it. Fuck! I missed the grab and bumped it even further down. Let me just grab it here to bring it up SHIT IT'S IN MY WAY NOW!

(Oh, and swap those motherfucking pickups.)

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:40 pm

avj wrote:(Congrats on the purchase, by the way! I was too thick to put that together earlier. Is this the one from lorez?)

Interesting discussion, this. I've always just been satisfied with a limp arm and a straight plug coming off the guitar; this causes it to fall and stay in the same place when I let go instead of whipping around like a pinwheel. I tried some Teflon tape in there to tension it a bit, but I found myself compulsively making ridiculous micro-adjustments to the position of it while playing.

No, that's not a good angle! My hand is going to bump it while I'm strumming. Shit, now it's too low for me to grab it. Fuck! I missed the grab and bumped it even further down. Let me just grab it here to bring it up SHIT IT'S IN MY WAY NOW!

(Oh, and swap those motherfucking pickups.)

thanks! Yes it was Lorez's and Mike's before. I'm stupidly loving the neck on it. Actually embarrassingly so.

I don't mind an arm that swings (but prefer not) it's more I don't like the arm to have movement before pressing against the side of the hole. I know plumbers tape sorts that out and that's what I've always done in the past but never felt it quite achieved the feel i wanted. I may be rosy-tinting my memory but i remember Mikes vintage jag trem being ultra slinky in feel.

Yes i read your thread recently! the neck seems fine enough to me but initial impression of the bridge is that it's got what i call Nerd Tone. Sort of like a less deep Mr Bean Tonality. Needs more CHANGGGGGGG. That being said i am going to get to know it for a while, fiddle with my amps and that first before i do anything hasty or expensive. I AM quite tempted by the Catswhisker JP90s however... Waiting to hear what EKWatts has to say on the quarter pounders too.......must resist the temptation to tinker too much, too early, otherwise it'll end up in parts on my floor for months.

avj · Post by **avj** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:23 am

Dave wrote:
avj wrote:(Congrats on the purchase, by the way! I was too thick to put that together earlier. Is this the one from lorez?)

Interesting discussion, this. I've always just been satisfied with a limp arm and a straight plug coming off the guitar; this causes it to fall and stay in the same place when I let go instead of whipping around like a pinwheel. I tried some Teflon tape in there to tension it a bit, but I found myself compulsively making ridiculous micro-adjustments to the position of it while playing.

No, that's not a good angle! My hand is going to bump it while I'm strumming. Shit, now it's too low for me to grab it. Fuck! I missed the grab and bumped it even further down. Let me just grab it here to bring it up SHIT IT'S IN MY WAY NOW!

(Oh, and swap those motherfucking pickups.)
thanks! Yes it was Lorez's and Mike's before. I'm stupidly loving the neck on it. Actually embarrassingly so.

I don't mind an arm that swings (but prefer not) it's more I don't like the arm to have movement before pressing against the side of the hole. I know plumbers tape sorts that out and that's what I've always done in the past but never felt it quite achieved the feel i wanted. I may be rosy-tinting my memory but i remember Mikes vintage jag trem being ultra slinky in feel.

Yes i read your thread recently! the neck seems fine enough to me but initial impression of the bridge is that it's got what i call Nerd Tone. Sort of like a less deep Mr Bean Tonality. Needs more CHANGGGGGGG. That being said i am going to get to know it for a while, fiddle with my amps and that first before i do anything hasty or expensive. I AM quite tempted by the Catswhisker JP90s however... Waiting to hear what EKWatts has to say on the quarter pounders too.......must resist the temptation to tinker too much, too early, otherwise it'll end up in parts on my floor for months.

Forgot about the Livesley mojo! A fine heritage, that guitar.

Great points made about the minutiae of what makes a trem feel vastly different. I will of course further examine my own technique and setup and find something to change about it. Dick.

I didn't mean to be a pusher on the pickup thing, I've just wanted to make that my own personal crusade that shan't be wavered from. Keep us abreast of your findings for sure!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:33 am

Crusade on Sir Knight! Will do - i'm still in the getting to know it stage...holding hands, coy glances askew at each other...when it gets to the hard fucking we'll probably learn so much more about each other.

Has anyone else noticed the amount of sexual references/jests I've made in this thread? That's rather worrying me. It's either full moon or I need a girlfriend ASAP. If, however, I call the guitar 'she' at any point in the future please hunt me down and shoot me in my brainmeats until I stop twitching.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:19 pm

AVJ and anyone else interested in my anally retentive tinkering:

Found that Mikes modded Rhythm circuit sounds great. Clean plucked stuff through a fender Musicmaster Bass amp sounds lovely and you can hear a faint ringing of the strings behind the bridge that lends a subtle ethereal sound with that kind of playing. This sounded better than either the neck or bridge on the other circuit.

Alarmingly when run through an Eau Claire thunder it sounded terrible compared to, for example, my 59 guyatone (which is actually a secret DOOM MONSTER despite it's age). Weak and barely driving the pedal to really get gnarly like it should - just fizzling.

I'd noticed that the pups were much lower than I'd normally expect in single coils so bumped up the bridge and instantly it sounded ten times better through the fuzz. The neck wont move up with the screws so that will have to wait until I get the pickguard off. The bridge also sounds better than it did when clean however the general tone of it is not quite to my taste yet.

How do you find you AVRI pups through fuzz?

avj · Post by **avj** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:14 pm

Well, first I'll say that I found the stock pickups to sound poor through the many different configurations I outlined in my replacement thread. To me, it just felt like I didn't have any real control over dynamics -- like the guitar was just really driving the shit out of the front end of whatever it was jacked into. I tried lowering the pickups a bit to compensate, but when I was able to adjust them to a low enough position to quell the output, dynamics suffered even more thanks to our friend Science. Also understand that I'd not changed anything about the guitar in the eight months or so since purchasing it, as I felt I was clearly the one that was missing something about the stock pickups. Because of this, I fought with it constantly and wound up using my trusty Tele most of the time.

(Prior to putting the AVRI pickups in, I didn't even have a fuzz on my board because I used the precious space for three OD and distortion pedals at a time that were in a constant state of flux. I had been using some permutation of Rat2 (w/Ruetz mod), Boss SD-1, Marshall ShredMaster and DriveMaster, MXR Distortion+, EHX Germanium OD, and Original SansAmp and GT-2.)

To finally answer your question, one of the first things I did was try each of the fuzzes I have alone with my amp ('73 Vibrosonic, essentially a Twin with 1x15") to see how they sounded. I have an EHX Big Muff NYC, a Guyatone TZ2 (love this!), an Ibanez FZ7, and a Shin Ei Companion FY-2 clone I made. Each of these pretty distinct fuzzes sounded much better to me, and I attribute it to some combination of both the output of the pickups and the voice. To me, the stock pickups seemed to put too much emphasis on mids and lower mids, and with the higher output it instantly made everything sound like like dung. I wish I would have taken the time to record some simple demo sounds to be able to compare and show the world, but I was too eager to just move on.

I guess the best advice I can give is to keep the stock guys in there until the very moment you question their worth, and not a moment longer. I was ready to make a stupid decision and sell my most precious amp because I had long-tolerated a sound I disliked and lost sight of why.

(Also, nice work starting with "anally" to keep it going. Some gems throughout, with talk of pulling tips off, measuring, knobs, holes, Vaseline, abortion, limp, dick, etc.)

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:39 pm

I hear where you're coming from. I likely will swap out soon enough however i don't need to be spunking any more wads of money too quick. That would be premature.

yes the dynamics thing: that's what was happening with the bridge as low as it was when run through the fuzz. Much better now for that purpose but not quite there for the cleans I like.

interesting what you say about the lows and mids - to me I kinda thought it was a little like there was a blanket over the sound - a lack of bite and clarity. Oddly the rhythm circuit seems the most well rounded and 'hi-fi' compared to the lead which is testament to Mikes skills given its reputation for darkness.

Okay what the fuck is the guyatone fuzz and have you done any vids of your jag or that guyatone I can check out? I'm a guyatone fanboi based on one guitar so will take that bait and ASK FOR DEEEETAIIIILLLSSS

On another note, without recourse to any sexual innuendo, did you know that if you wank into the jack socket at the crossroads a genie appears and gives you a + 10 on your brown tone? Seriously. Shit gets deep at that level of tone

avj · Post by **avj** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:55 pm

It's a great and affordable Superfuzz clone. The TZ2 -- along with the rest of the old Micro line -- was discontinued recently, so you should be able to find it for a decent price somewhere. It's been replaced with the TZm5, which seems to be even sweeter. The new ones look to be better-constructed than the old Micro series, which should address the whiners saying they weren't strong enough -- whatever that means. I don't understand people who wreck things.

TZ2:
[youtube][/youtube]

TZm5:
[youtube][/youtube]

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:14 pm

Almost bought one of those TZ2s umpteen times - loads of the incidental music in Ocean's 11 featured one of those, dullfact fans.

Dave, I didn't realise the arm flopped around - I can't handle that. Sort it through whatever means necessary.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:21 pm

Nay worries B! your concerns were accurate, welcomed, and on point as always!

By the way someone just blagged a MIM CP jag for 220 shipped on ebay because the seller had no photography or description skills. What a knob. Expect to see that flipped for twice the price next week! And no it wasn't me!

EDIT: NONNO I AM DRUNK. It's not ended - ITS JUST BEEN LISTED AT THAT PRICE. farrrk

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:30 pm

Swapped in some new strings and lubed all the parts the string travels over. A small amount of support for the notion that the trem parts are AVRI comes in the fact that a trem arm collar designed for MIJ jags does not fit. Waiting for the USA version to turn up. The bridge however willl take a metric Tonepros TOM. Curious. I'd actually use it if it weren't gold.

Oh yes. Had these knocking about: