Jaguar vs Jazzmaster Tonality

[SGJarrod]

So, I have never owned a Jaguar but am interested in them... I am a humbucker guy so if I did ever get one in the future it would at least have a bridge HB..

I realize the 24" scale is slinkier and easier to play but does it actually make a tonal difference? What I mean is if you had a Jazzmaster vs Jaguar with all the same electronics and hardware in both does the 24" scale have a tonal difference than the 25.5" scale?

Thanx All!

[SKC Willie]

damnit. this is a touchy topic.

if you were playing the same size strings, then yes. you may be able to notice a tonal difference. If you put jazzmaster pups in a jaguar though, it is going to sound pretty damn close to a Jaguar. if you were listening to a recording, you probably couldn't tell. if you played only one of them, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. it you played them side by side in the same room, you probably could tell the difference.

that's just my opinion. there are just other factors of the guitar that effect the tone more than the scale IMHO

[taylornutt]

I think any change will affect the tone, the question then becomes how much and will you be able to notice it. Different scales affect the tension of the strings and how hard you press them down. The only way to know for sure would be to put Jag pups into Jazzmasters and Jazz pups in to Jaguars, which has been done but not that often to be popular. They have almost the same electronics but very different pups that respond completely differently. There is definitely a difference, but how much of that is due to scale length is hard to know for sure.

[SGJarrod]

There is definitely a difference, but how much of that is due to scale length is hard to know for sure.

and that is what I figured.... I have the Blacktop Jazzy and honestly if I got a Jaguar it would be along the same lines, no rythm circuit, no strangle, ect...... prolly just 2 HB's, a 3 way switch, 1 vol and 1 tone.... and hopefully the jazzy/jag trem

Basically, I am running thru my head if it would even be worth looking into down the rd... If the sound is not gonna be that much different it is prolly not worth the money to me to buy a Jaguar just for the feel..... does this make sense?

and obviously the neck pu would sound different than my Jazzy cuz it has the JM pick-up in it

[honeyiscool]

No strangle switch? Are you high?

The strangle switch makes the Jag, man.

Anyway, you should just get the Classic Player Jaguar Special HH and pretty much keep it stock. I don't know why anyone would kill the awesome tone switching options of that guitar. I mean, I'm not a humbucker man, and I don't like 9.5" radius, but the Classic Player Jag, oh I'd find use for it for sure.

And the feel is definitely more than enough reason to have another guitar. The sound should be different, anyway.

That said, I'd look into a used CIJ Mustang. Lot of them have been Kurt Cobained for your benefit.

[taylornutt]

Luckily for you, there are quite a few Jaguars with humbuckers for you to choose from. What features besides the humbuckers do you want? If you want a Jag with the "traditional" Jag trem, you should checkout the CP Jaguar HH which also has the strangle switch and coil tapping of the humbuckers. The CIJ Black Jaguar HH has all the traditional Jaguar electronics (rhythm and lead circuits) and 7.25" neck radius with the fender Dragster pickups but no tremolo. You could always swap the humbuckers if you don't like them. More recently, the Blacktop Jag or the Squier Jag both have humbuckers with 3 way toggle. Of course the last 3 Jags I mentioned have no tremolo but a locked bridge. It really depends what kind of features you want. Someday, I want to snag one of those CIJ Black Jaguar HHs, swap out the Dragsters for WRHB and a white/mint/pearloid pickguard.

[George]

I think the difference lies more between the types of pickup than the scale length with the Jags and Jazzys.

I don't think scale makes that much of a difference except the consequential pickup voicing (position) or that you can't quite preserve the same string tension or general tone without losing something in translation by having to use an 11 guage on a Jag, and 10 on a Jazzy (if that makes sense).

[SGJarrod]

I think the difference lies more between the types of pickup than the scale length with the Jags and Jazzys.

I run mainly PAF style HBs and I am sure that is what the Jag would end up getting, so it maybe a tone overlap just for the sake of having a sexy Jaguar... therefore might not be worth the cash just to have a slinky feeling axe

although as Taylor stated, some WRHB would be nice in a Jaguar

[George]

It's kind of relative with the slinky thing, because you could just as well set up a 25.5" with 9s and get near enough. I find the 24" can get a little cramped and doesn't give you as nice a landing pad in each fret as a 25.5", but that's a personal thing. Jags are still wonderful fun though.

[kypdurron]

I feel there is a huge difference in how I play on different scales. And that affects sound massively. The other thing is that a longer scale allows the strings to swing wider. In my experience, this makes more sustain and frequencies doing things on their own, but also a noticably slower attack than shortscales offer. on the opposite, shortscales are sometimes described as "plinky", "fast" and stuff. Both has its advantages.

Of course you can counter each of these effects with certain pickups and string gauges, but that doesn't mean that the differences don't make a difference. Driving a fast car slowly doesn't make it a slow car.

And, I see no sense in separating playing and feeling the guitar from how it actually sounds. That is because it sounds as good as I play it. And as I said, how I play it is definitely influenced by scale (and radius, frets, strings and everything else).

Anyway, you should just get the Classic Player Jaguar Special HH and pretty much keep it stock. I don't know why anyone would kill the awesome tone switching options of that guitar. I mean, I'm not a humbucker man, and I don't like 9.5" radius, but the Classic Player Jag, oh I'd find use for it for sure.

That is a well designed and good sounding guitar. Exept for that wanna be kill switch, I like it a lot. I wouldn't trade my Jazzmaster in for one, though.

[George]

I feel there is a huge difference in how I play on different scales. And that affects sound massively. The other thing is that a longer scale allows the strings to swing wider. In my experience, this makes more sustain and frequencies doing things on their own, but also a noticably slower attack than shortscales offer. on the opposite, shortscales are sometimes described as "plinky", "fast" and stuff.

I have to interject and ask how much of that is based on the bridge system that comes with most shortscales? When I've played Jazzys and Jags the plinkiness and lack of sustain seems present in both, though maybe less with the Jazzy perhaps.

[SGJarrod]

the feel never really seems to affect what or how I play..... what affects what or how I play the most is the sound... give me a SG with PAFs and ur bound to hear some AC/DC..... give me a Jazzmaster and ur gonna hear some cleaner softer tunes

[honeyiscool]

Yeah I agree with that. Treble string David Byrne riffs just feel more robust on a Mustang than on a 25.5"/9.5" neck because the strings just seem faster and it's just that much easier to get your fingers barred across the curved fretboard. You can play them on a Strat just fine, but the strings just feel different.

If you're someone who likes a lot of chica chica in your playing, 24" scales are wonderful.

But I suppose someone who was all about that pick attack probably wouldn't be wanting humbuckers, so yeah.

Me, I have a dislike for humbuckers. I cannot hate their muffled sound and their loud output. I love humbuckers in parallel, though.

I have to interject and ask how much of that is based on the bridge system that comes with most shortscales? When I've played Jazzys and Jags the plinkiness and lack of sustain seems present in both, though maybe less with the Jazzy perhaps.

To that, I say lack of sustain is a good thing. And I think just between the Jag, Mustang, and Duo-Sonic, the bridges are actually quite diverse.

[SGJarrod]

so, ur all saying the 24" scale has more clanginess to the sound and u will hear more pick attack compared to the 25.5"? a sharper, faster sound?

but the bridge design may be part of this too.....

[George]

I may be going against popular opinion but I'm going to say no. Personally I think the clanginess comes from the bridge design that Stangs, Jags and Jazzys use. They're all in plinky camp to me. Strats and Teles have a bridge design that offers better resonance and sustain, and coincidentally are 25.5".

Play a CP Jag with a TuneOMatic bridge, and one with the vintage style bridge and you'll hear the difference.

[hotrodperlmutter]

[honeyiscool]

Oh no, in theory 24" should be duller than 25.5" since the strings are in lower tension.

What we're saying is that you'll play differently on a 24".

[SGJarrod]

If you're someone who likes a lot of chica chica in your playing, 24" scales are wonderful.

then please explain chica chica

[Mages]

I think he's saying the strumming is very percussive. they are pretty bright guitars and have bridges that give them give them a plinky attack.

I don't think short scales are necessarily duller just fuller. the strings are able to move more freely due to the reduced tension, this creates more bass. I think the design of the mustang and jag were made with this in mind, hence the bright pickups. the idea being to give them the fullest sound possible. short scale for more bass, the tall single coils for more treble. not to mention the extreme location of the bridge pickup on the mustang, all the way up against the bridge. you'll notice that the jazzmaster retained the long scale but used fatter sounding flat single coils to attain a similar balance and full sound.

[ekwatts]

Having recently changed my Jag over from the original bridge to a roller-style screw-in TOM, I can confirm that the sustain and "plinkiness" has been banished. There's a major difference in feel while playing. You actually feel the body of the guitar vibrating when you hit the strings and there's much more sustain. Purists might argue that this sort of defeats the point of a Jaguar, but purists can also suck mah balls, because it just sounds better. It's not like I've turned it into a Les Paul, I've just modified the existing bridge so there's a little more transference between the strings, bridge and body and the guitar feels much more open to me now.