Need help with Ridiculous Wiring Job (New schematic Pg2)

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:01 pm

So, I'm going to be taking just one guitar to New Zealand with me, and it's to be the Ibanez Artcore I got from Reece. The plan is to put two P-Rails in it and a whole load of switches. The time has come to start writing budgets for my last few months in the country and I've happily discovered that I'll be able to make a start on this in the next while.

I've included a diagram below of what I want to do. Basically, I want to treat the two P-rails as four different pickups that can be combined in any arrangement of phase and series/parallel options and easily switched between the two.To this end I plan on getting a new, black pickguard (perhaps a larger, archtop style one if I can make it fit) and mount loads of switches on it (I realise that I will have to raise the guard and change the angle on it for this to work as there isn't much room underneath). Also, I want ultimate flexibility with regards tone and volume, so I'm hoping to go for concentric pots so that each of the four coils has it's own tone and volume control. Also also, I'm thinking that I'll fill the hole in the body (left by the original pickup selector) with a varitone, just for the sake of having even more options.

What I need to know is:

1. Is this possible?
2. Is there an easier way to do this?
3. How do I do this?
4. Where is the best place to buy switches, pots and wires and is it worth spending extra monies on brand ones?
5. Am I right in thinking adding the varitone won't make any real difference to how everything else is wired and can be sort of added on to the circuit afterwards?

(picture will be here in a second, photobucket's acting up for me)

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:27 pm

Yes its all very possible. Just treat each coil as an individual pickup using north ad south start/finish.
You will want to go from the coil > volume/tone > pickup on/off/phase (use mystang style 3 way) > varitone thing > jack
Yeah?
These pickups are serious little devils but so worth it

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:05 pm

Haze wrote:You will want to go from the coil > volume/tone > pickup on/off/phase (use mystang style 3 way) > varitone thing > jack
Yeah?

That's what I thought, that the Vairtone went at the end so it sort of doesn't affect the rest of the gubbins.

Is it easy enough having on/off/phase and series/parallel all on the one pickup?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:39 pm

ORIGINAL DIAGRAM REMOVED BECAUSE IT'S NOW REDUNDANT.

La.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 pm

So, after a bit of searching and reading around (I now what a SPDT is for instance, impressive eh?) I found this guy's site, and after some more scouting around I found the following, which seems to be roughly what I'm aiming for, minus the phase options. If I take this and add the 3 phase switches (see even below below) between each pickup and it's closest SPDT switch on the red and green wires, plus another in the place that it says to in the first diagram, then I should have all the sounds I'm looking for, with a slightly different way of switching it (a lot easier to wire up though, I suspect).

The problem now is what I do with the volume and tone controls. Where do they go? Bear in mind that I would like to have a volume and tone control for each coil, so stacked pots, if this is possible.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:55 pm

Okay, well I'll just guess where the knobs go and hopefully that will all work.

Next question: Does it make sense spending decent money on switchcraft switches? Bitsbox has no brand switches and I can get everything I need for less than a tenner, axesrus has ones that will cost about Â£30. What's the difference?

Is there anywhere I can get better or cheaper concentric pots than axesrus where they cost Â£9 each?

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:26 pm

I use places like pedalpartsplus, mammoth electronics, allied elctronics, all ca+ry quality parts for a lot cheaer than guitar repair/mod sites. For uk based though chec out Rapid. I know they will have dual gang pots and switches (don't need switchcrapt). Shoot mike a pm, I'm sure he knows of loads of uk electronics suppliers.

I as meaning to reply but had to look up a schematic and got cought up. Pots should go after any sort of phase switching

Coil > phase > series/parallel > pots > on/off > master 3 way > varitone > jack

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:50 pm

Cool, master three way has been replaced by two 2-way SPDT's on the schematic I'm working off now. It's the two in the middle. If I wanted to phase switch between each pickup (not each coil within in a pickup) I'm guessing I'd have to do that phase switch above on the green from the left (neck) and the red from the right (bridge) (or vice-versa), then to pots, then to the two master SPDT's?

Then to phase switch between each coil within a pickup it would be on the red and green before the SPDT's at each end?

I'm very glad to hear someone say that I don't need to buy switchcraft, it saves me a decent chunk, like.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:33 am

I'm about to order switches and such. I need to know are sub-miniature toggle switches even smaller than miniature toggle switches and are they a good idea? This stuff is going under the pickguard and there might not be loads of space in there.

Also, for the varitone, I'm going with this guy's 12-position set up. What sort of rotary switch do I need, is this one okay, then just cut the shaft down to size to put the chicken head on? I was sort of expecting something a little less plastic looking:

http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-C ... ches/30304

Also Also, really noob question here, what sort of wire should I use? Will I get moar toenz using a heavier gauge cloth wrapped wire instead of cheap stuff?

George · Post by **George** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:39 am

Sounds interesting!

I wouldn't go for the plastic rotary though, just because the washer and nut are metal, and it will wear the plastic down eventually. Not a big issue but the innards are probably not going to last long either.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:53 am

That's what I was thinking, but all the ones I've found so far look like this.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:55 pm

Another noob question: I need switches that have no centre position. Rapid describe some switches as being on-none-on, does this mean that they have no centre position and so are what I need, or does it mean something else?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:23 pm

So I've ordered some things and am nearly ready to get soldering. I still need pots, tone caps, and one more cap for the varitone. Oh, and inductor(s). I think I know where I'm getting the pots from, but for the other stuff I'm going to go to some local shops and see if they can sort me out because it's only a handful of things.

I've fitted a new guard, one that will be big enough to accommodate the switches and have enough space underneath it for them. I think it looks pretty good. Nice and seventies. Well pleased, given it's my first go at it.

Big bag of electronics:

► Show Spoiler

Making a new pickguard:

► Show Spoiler

And these are just gratuitous macro shots of other parts of the guitar that look pretty:

► Show Spoiler

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:20 pm

So, I now have everything ready to go (except one of the pickups, which will arrive next week and hopefully drop in to place). This is the schematic I've drawn up and that I'm fairly sure I'm going to use. Does this work? The main problem is that I'm not 100% on where the pots should go for each coil.

EDIT: THIS IS AN OLD SCHEMATIC THAT DIDN'T WORK FOR ME ON ACCOUNT OF IT BEING DRAWN FOR DIMARZIO COLOURS. SEE PAGE 2 FOR SCHEMATIC USING SD COLOURS

Mages · Post by **Mages** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:11 pm

nice job on the pickguard. I like how the guitar looks with the black pickguard. and the flipped bracket mod is very crafty.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:59 pm

I was very happy when the flipped bracket idea occurred to me. To be honest, I think they guard looks a little big in these pictures but it's now got 9 switches in it and is set to get at least two more, so it doesn't look so big no more.

mellowlogic · Post by **mellowlogic** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:41 pm

I'll be of no help with the wiring diagram, but I can't wait to see this guitar with all the switches in it.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:24 pm

So, I've got most of the parts for this together (still waiting on a few bits for the varitone). I spent the last two nights burning my hands to pieces and soldering it up, a lot of work, about eight hours or so in total. I got it ready, put the harness in the guitar, and it doesn't work. I think that the shielded braiding on the wires may be causing shorts all over the place. It's weird, it's not even not working properly, ie. the behaviours being shown by the circuit are completely unexpected and have little to do with what the switches ought to do.

I think there's maybe another few hours involved in this. I'll take the harness back out and insulate everything with tape. Then it'll be a simple matter of fitting the varitone on the bottom of the circuit when all the parts get here.

I have to say, though, if anyone is considering doing a similar job on a similar style guitar, my advice is don't. I realise now that things would have been a lot easier if I wasn't using thick, Gibson style braided wire. There'es about three meters of wire in there, all going in to 36 terminals on a bank of switches as long as my middle finger. The entire harness that runs to the controls is about an inch and a half thick in diameter. Thinner wire, all bound in a home made shield would have made far more sense.

Anyway, it's going to sound awesome. Eventually.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon May 09, 2011 8:11 pm

I'm just finished wiring the neck pickup up again and it still doesn't work. Touching the pole pieces on either the rail or the P-90 will produce a crackle, regardless of what way the switches are configured. This doesn't seem right to me.

Could someone please check my schematic and tell me if there's a problem with it? I know it's a horrendous job, but I'm at my wits' end here.

Thanks.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:09 pm

I think I've made about as noobish a mistake as it's possible to make here. I've realised that my schematic uses DiMarzio wire colours, P-Rails are obviously SD. I'll amend this, draw a new diagram and have another crack at this tomorrow night.