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honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:52 pm

Ankhanu wrote:So, basically if you also don't like Strat trems, there's no argument to be made for Floyd Roses? Cool.

Well, the Floyd is a Strat trem on steroids, so yeah, I would say so.

It just baffles me because people say "STRINGING FLOYD ROSE IS SO SHIT" and then you look in some other thread and people are creaming over a Bigsby. As if a Bigsby can be strung in fewer than three days.

ultratwin · Post by **ultratwin** » Mon May 16, 2011 11:27 pm

honeyiscool wrote: As if a Bigsby can be strung in fewer than three days.

Actually, needle nose pliers + capo = a 10 minute change on a bigsby B5/B16, and I've done it a dozen times or more by now. The trick is to lay the strings out, twist the ball loop to anchor better, and continuously adjust the capo after making sure each is taut across the bridge.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Tue May 17, 2011 12:18 am

And with a good string winder and a capo, a Floyd can be strung in 10 minutes, too. Then strum strum strum with a PolyTune.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:16 am

the bigsby is certainly not about being the most functional piece of hardware alive but they do the job and look great.

And you act like EVERYONE is against you here, and that's not the case. There are just as many people on this board that hate bigsbys as there people that hate Floyd Tulips.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:23 am

Bigsbys can sure look classy though. Never seen a classy lookin' Floyd.

Yes, that is an extremely shallow assessment... but half of the appeal of an electric guitar is the way it looks.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:29 am

portugalwillie wrote:the bigsby is certainly not about being the most functional piece of hardware alive but they do the job and look great.

And you act like EVERYONE is against you here, and that's not the case. There are just as many people on this board that hate bigsbys as there people that hate Floyd Tulips.

And what's the job? Provide as little amount of whammy as possible while weighing a bunch and making restringing a bitch? I'm just pointing out that all whammies do have their quirks and stuff of that nature, and all this Floyd bashing is dumb because at the one thing a whammy is functionally designed to do, detune and then return the strings back to pitch, Floyd happens to do it better than most, thereby justifying their high maintenance nature, which I do fully admit. If a Floyd, and I don't mean crappy Licensed Floyd Roses on cheesy imports, didn't do its job well, I wouldn't be defending it.

I'm not suggesting that everyone is against me, but gear bias on this forum does irk at me a bit much because on one hand, everyone's up in arms about how Mustangs and Jaguars aren't all about the Kurdtz, but then apparently 7-strings are only good for Korn and Floyd is only good for melting down into a Bigsby. There are people who do seem to look beyond that (like that Fran dude with his BC Rich obsession), and then there are people who don't. I have no fights to pick with the former.

And no, I'm not immune to this stuff either. If I was, I would have a Steinberger already because engineering wise, they're perfect guitars IMO.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:55 am

I can buy a bigsby, throw a couple of screws into my guitar and have a functional vibrato on my guitar. I can also do it and only string two strings onto and have G and B bender. The Floyd, functionally, is fine. Like you said, any vibrato is going to have it's quirks; locking nut or pain in the ass restrings.

No guitar that I like the sound of has a floyd daisy on it and I'm not going to carve into my telecasters to put a floyd on it. The bigsby can be thrown on without even changing the bridge, which a crucial part of the tele sound, a Floyd cannot. And that's why as primarily a tele player, a bigsby will be better for my need EVERY TIME.

JUST BECAUSE YOUR NEEDS ARE MET BETTER BY A FLOYD PANSIE DOESN'T MEAN IT BEST FOR EVERYBODY. THE ONLY GEAR SNOB HERE IS YOU TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH BETTER THE SHIT YOU USE IS. GOD DAMN, HOMIE.

JJLipton · Post by **JJLipton** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:16 am

If you change strings one at a time, you can restring a floating floyd no problem

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:29 am

JJLipton wrote:If you change strings one at a time, you can restring a floating floyd no problem

Same with a floating Jag/Jazz/VI or Bigsby.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:33 am

honeyiscool wrote:And what's the job? Provide as little amount of whammy as possible while weighing a bunch and making restringing a bitch?

Oh my, I'm beginning to get a little butt hurt.

The job is giving that nice subtle vibrato effect, much like the one you get by pushing in on the front of the upper horn and on the back of the neck, but without putting as much stress on the neck joint or being able to easily go overboard. FOR THE TYPE OF MUSIC I PLAY, THERE IS NO REASON TO GO MORE THAN A BIGSBY STYLE. Why do people race spec Miatas when they can race F1? Why take a nice walk on the beach when you can go skydiving?

Floyd Roses are pretty damn heavy too, it's not as if Bigsby weighs any more, or if it does, it's not much of a difference. Different strokes for different folks, but facts are that floating trems by their nature are harder to deal with. On every Bigsby type guitar I've had, I would just take sandpaper to the string-ball posts if I was unable to just slip the string over the post....I really do not know what you're talking about when you say it takes just as long to restring a bigsby as it does a Floyd. Maybe it's true if you're at a workbench with the right tools and you know what you're doing, but I'm not going to fiddle with a tiny little block and snips and an allen key on stage.

I get that you like Floyd Roses, and I don't have a problem with them other than that I don't want one. I stand my ground that it ruins the natural tone of any instrument, at least unplugged....ever try one of those Gibson LPs with a floyd on it? It sure doesn't sound anything like a Les Paul when you strum it that's for sure. Can't really say the same for LPs with Bigsbys, they seem to have the same resonance, in some cases even more so.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:39 am

The Bigsby on my bandmate's Gretch actually has a much wider range of detuning than my Jag's trem...

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:39 am

portugalwillie wrote:I can buy a bigsby, throw a couple of screws into my guitar and have a functional vibrato on my guitar. I can also do it and only string two strings onto and have G and B bender. The Floyd, functionally, is fine. Like you said, any vibrato is going to have it's quirks; locking nut or pain in the ass restrings.

No guitar that I like the sound of has a floyd daisy on it and I'm not going to carve into my telecasters to put a floyd on it. The bigsby can be thrown on without even changing the bridge, which a crucial part of the tele sound, a Floyd cannot. And that's why as primarily a tele player, a bigsby will be better for my need EVERY TIME.

JUST BECAUSE YOUR NEEDS ARE MET BETTER BY A FLOYD PANSIE DOESN'T MEAN IT BEST FOR EVERYBODY. THE ONLY GEAR SNOB HERE IS YOU TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH BETTER THE SHIT YOU USE IS. GOD DAMN, HOMIE.

If the ability to retrofit a trem is the issue here, then yeah, Bigsby and Stetsbar are some of the only ones that are easy to retrofit a guitar that doesn't have one already. But that's not exactly a reason not to buy a guitar that has one stock, just because it's a difficult item to install.

I didn't even say that a Floyd Rose is better than what you use, or that it even fits my needs more than other trems. I have exactly one FR guitar, and I only recently got it after playing around with a Jackson Soloist that belongs to my roommate and finding the Floyd a really fun little tool. He didn't even have the arm on, and I really liked it that way, because you could hit it like you would a Mustang tailpiece and provide little bits of warble, and that's how I have it set up, except the big difference is that I have the ability to do massive detuning when I want to. It sure does provide more detuning than just about any other design and in that sense, it's a well engineered product because it's exceedingly good at what a whammy should be good at. If you don't like the way it looks, well, sheesh, that's a tough one to counter so I won't even go there, though there are versions without locking nuts, versions with low-profile screws that are a lot more ninja.

But, tone? Tone being subjective, I hear that a steel block can improve FR tone. I also hear that about Strat trems, that they kill tone and sustain and can be improved with a big ass steel block. I've also heard Bill Callaham talk about how Tune-O-Matic bridges are sustain-killing and terrible and yadda yadda yadda. I've also heard that Mustang trems kill tone, that the Jazzmaster bridge kills tone, that the 24" scale kills tone, small gauge strings kill tone. In fact, apparently only thing in the world that doesn't kill tone is a 3-saddle Telecaster bridge. I don't doubt it, some people do care about this stuff and others don't. But I really doubt I could post you three clips of three guitars with the exact same pickup and pot/cap values and you'd be like, yeah, the Floyd one is the worst sounding of the three.

Nick wrote:Floyd Roses are pretty damn heavy too, it's not as if Bigsby weighs any more, or if it does, it's not much of a difference. Different strokes for different folks, but facts are that floating trems by their nature are harder to deal with. On every Bigsby type guitar I've had, I would just take sandpaper to the string-ball posts if I was unable to just slip the string over the post....I really do not know what you're talking about when you say it takes just as long to restring a bigsby as it does a Floyd. Maybe it's true if you're at a workbench with the right tools and you know what you're doing, but I'm not going to fiddle with a tiny little block and snips and an allen key on stage.

I get that you like Floyd Roses, and I don't have a problem with them other than that I don't want one. I stand my ground that it ruins the natural tone of any instrument, at least unplugged....ever try one of those Gibson LPs with a floyd on it? It sure doesn't sound anything like a Les Paul when you strum it that's for sure. Can't really say the same for LPs with Bigsbys, they seem to have the same resonance, in some cases even more so.

I was attacking Bigsby trems to make a point, not because I think they're bad. I actually don't think they're dumb and definitely work for what they're supposed to work for, especially archtops. I was just nitpicking to demonstrate how people's animosity toward FR could just as easily be turned against something like a Bigsby. Anyway, I think you'd have to admit that stringing a Bigsby is an art in itself and it's because you're good at it that you can do it so quickly. There are plenty of people who can't do it as fast as you can, and then there are plenty of people who can set up a Floyd quite quickly. I'm sure Mr. Floyd Rose can string one pretty fast.

Anyway, guitars aren't played unplugged and of course, a FR Les Paul doesn't sound like a hardtail LP, but a hardtail Strat doesn't sound like a floating Strat either and last I checked, most people think a floating Strat sounds better, or more vintage at least, whatever that means.

StevePirates · Post by **StevePirates** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:30 am

ITT People have opinions.

Rhysyrhys · Post by **Rhysyrhys** » Tue May 17, 2011 6:05 am

Fuck all this noise. Flush Strat tremolo, whammy arm wound right the way in and sticking away from the bridge downwards at a 45 degree angle. The only thing it gets beaten on is the upwards action. But upwards action is for wankers.

George · Post by **George** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:01 am

Never spent enough time with a Bigsby but Mustang, Strat, Jag/Jazzy and Floyd trems all work well for what they were intended to do. Floyds and Kahlers just absolutely do not fit the aesthetic I'm looking for in a guitar. And looks are important.

JJLipton · Post by **JJLipton** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:34 pm

Rhysyrhys wrote:Fuck all this noise. Flush Strat tremolo, whammy arm wound right the way in and sticking away from the bridge downwards at a 45 degree angle. The only thing it gets beaten on is the upwards action. But upwards action is for wankers.

no way man, the floating trem allows for such a smooth pleasant vibrato!

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:42 pm

JJLipton wrote:
Rhysyrhys wrote:Fuck all this noise. Flush Strat tremolo, whammy arm wound right the way in and sticking away from the bridge downwards at a 45 degree angle. The only thing it gets beaten on is the upwards action. But upwards action is for wankers.
no way man, the floating trem allows for such a smooth pleasant vibrato!

Agreed, actually. My Batwing has one of the most functional strat-type trems I've ever used, it operates on a fulcrum but with full contact all along the front edge of the bridge. I usually string it with heavy bottom 10s and five springs, set up with about 2-3mm raised off the body. The killer for me in the whole Floyd-vs.-strat trem debate is that when it's set up perfectly, the fulcrum design allows me to drop it to the point where the strings just flop about, and it can come right back up to pitch. The point is that bar some silly show-off bit in an outro piece that particular function is pretty much lost on me; why would I do it? If I did it constantly it would just look and sound like wack shit.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm

I float my fulcrum type trems a tiny bit. If it's a bit too much, palm muting can get difficult, but if it's not floated at all, then you can't really pull the bridge without the bar, and that action is crucial for me.

The spaghetti action is actually useful when you're changing pickups and you're too lazy to remove strings. Har har.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue May 17, 2011 7:56 pm

honeyiscool wrote:I was attacking Bigsby trems to make a point, not because I think they're bad.

Got it, sorry for the confusion, I have a tendency to take things too literally when reading on little sleep

24HRS2MDNT · Post by **24HRS2MDNT** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:13 pm

Trems are for wankers.

"Peace and Love. Peace and Love." - Ringo