Pathetic logic question / Killswitches

Post by **Doog** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:20 am

Hey dudes, I'm looking at putting an arcade button killswitch in the Doogcaster for fun times.

The Buckethead approach to killswitches is to literally have a "push-to-make" button that connects the hot and ground signals when held down, muting the signal. However, I don't find this very useful, so am going for the reverse of that, ie: the guitar goes BLARGH when the button is pressed and held, silent otherwise. I'll put a microswitch in to allow "normal" playing too, like so:

As it turns out, I don't believe the neato colourful-n-sturdy arcade buttons come in 'push to break' format, which is disappointing for mah plan.

Basically what I'm asking is; is there any neat way (ie, by using more components, not modding the switch) to covert a 'push-to-make' into a 'push-to-break'?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:31 am

Posted from phone with broken scroll wheel, so this is badly written and can't be correccted, sorry:

Could you not have the output from after the pus and knobs and such go to the center lug of an spdt no centre switch then have one of the outer lugs go straight to the jack and the other go to the jack via the push to make switch, so the two are parallel and the switch selects which one is used?

Post by **Doog** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:38 am

Alas, just cutting the hot connection is a one-way ticket to Humsville, my friend.

Post by **Mike** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:40 am

Nothing springing to mind that isn't active I'm afraid.

Post by **Doog** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:01 pm

Bums, thought as much. Ah well, will continue to look a non-arcadey switches. Danke for your inputs.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:44 pm

Doog wrote:Alas, just cutting the hot connection is a one-way ticket to Humsville, my friend.

Oh really? Oh dear. Didn't know that. Why is that? Surely it's just the same as having the a lead with no guitar on the end lying out of the amp?

I thought there would maybe be an issue with a popping sound when it was used, but didn't anticipate hum. It's worth noting that I work off Eric's model of guitar electronics being like a waterpipe based DS game.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 am

The push to make deffo seems counter intuitive at first but seriously you quickly get using the button in the opposite way to what seems natural. Don't know if that's what you mean by 'not useful' but honestly it'll be second nature within an hour of practicing. I guess you think of it as pressing on off beats? I'll probably get stick for this but I practiced with tab for BH's Jordan and 'got it' after a while.

Sorry if you've been through all that or it's not because of that - don't want to teach ye to suck eggs!

Post by **Doog** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:02 am

Dave wrote:The push to make deffo seems counter intuitive at first but seriously you quickly get using the button in the opposite way to what seems natural. Don't know if that's what you mean by 'not useful' but honestly it'll be second nature within an hour of practicing. I guess you think of it as pressing on off beats? I'll probably get stick for this but I practiced with tab for BH's Jordan and 'got it' after a while.

Sorry if you've been through all that or it's not because of that - don't want to teach ye to suck eggs!

To be honest, I've not had an actually go on a killbutton, so this is mainly speculation here; it just seeeeems like it would be counter-intuitive, plus I don't think I could lift my finger up quicker than I can tap it?

Fuck it, I'm gonna buy an arcade button and see if I can get used to it

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:21 am

It totally, 100%, IS counter intuitive at first however it suddenly clicked for me....it's an either wrong or right proposition so it's not like gradually learning something with many variables - it will just suddenly make sense and be right instead of wrong, I guarantee it.. plus as someone who can drum and has timing (I have neither skill) you'll get it quicker than me.

Like I say I kind of thought about it as pressing or accenting on the off-beat like ska ....oomp PRESS oomp PRESS etc. And yeah releasing the button can be just as quick if not quicker as long as the button is springy. To 'let go' of the button takes less effort than pressing if ye ken what I mean and in fact it's more like bouncing off of the button.

Jordan is a fun easy riff that works nice to cut your teeth on and get the timing. Worked for me anyways!

Mine lookes like this un' and does the job well:

Be interested to see how the arcade one works out - where are you sourcing it from?

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Tue May 24, 2011 5:17 pm

Theres loads of Normally Closed switches around. I had a go at this and it's well fun, except that it pops when grounded and ground loops when held. A 1meg resister supposedly helps prevent popping a little.

Post by **Doog** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:02 pm

Dave wrote:Be interested to see how the arcade one works out - where are you sourcing it from?

Here's the ACTUAL GENUINE EBAY PAGE: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT

Based on the addres attached to their Ebay/Paypal account, it's the same guys as these arcadey fellas: http://www.gremlinsolutions.co.uk/

Buckethead actually uses of these Sanwa buttons too, and I figured arcade buttons are pretty much made for this kinda action, so why not. I ended up going for one of these smaller ones with the cool screw-on collar to hold it tight to the scratchplate. Now with my handydandy plunge router, getting it installed during my dogsitting stay in Bognor next week

Cheers Haze, I may look into the resistor if I have any popping probz. I did find a fair few other normally closed momentary switches over here, but nothing I'd really put a huge amount of faith in, in the longterm.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:04 pm

Ah that reminds me still got to send you that back plate for the Hondo body!

Post by **Doog** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:13 pm

Ah yes, brillo; fanks!

Haven't given up on the Marauder project btw, looking forward to having a bit of time to have at it.

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:47 pm

I've had two guitars with killswitches. One with a button and one with a toggle like this:

I preferred the dpdt switch as it was easier to use - allowing me to switch on on the beat, plus I could switch faster - it felt kind of similar to strumming. It was a paddle one which was softer to click and had less travel in its switching path compared to the dpdt switches that maplin sell and the like.

The push button also clicked unless I was using copious amounts of distortion and that annoyed the hell out of me.

Post by **Doog** » Wed May 25, 2011 12:13 pm

I'm a big fan of 3-way toggle for killswitching; I've got a toggle and 2 pickup volumes on Strat (have unwired the middle pickup) and a standalone killswitch on my Jazzmaster's top horn. Just figured I'd try something else for once.

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