Rat Question

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Is there any benefit to getting a big box Rat over a USA-made Rat 2? They both have that LM308 chip, right?

71Smallbox · Post by **71Smallbox** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:00 pm

they don't all have the LM308 chip, even if its US made. If its a US made Rat 2, look for flat top knobs, thats a dead give away. Otherwise, just take off the battery cover and take a peek, its right there in plain view on Rat 2's. Not all of the Big Box reissues had the chip either, it depends upon when they were made. Irregardless, any fool with a soldering iron can change it in 10 minutes time. There is a difference in sound, but its minimal at best, if anything it makes the distortion characteristic "richer" sounding. The main difference between the 2 if they have the same chip is that one has an LED and the other doesn't, the sound difference is very minimal, especially if its got a true bypass switch.

Post by **Doog** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:35 pm

The chip makes fuck-all difference really- hear for yourself in my vid-e-oh:

[youtube][/youtube]

Berto · Post by **Berto** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:23 pm

71Smallbox wrote:There is a difference in sound, but its minimal at best, if anything it makes the distortion characteristic "richer" sounding. The main difference between the 2 if they have the same chip is that one has an LED and the other doesn't, the sound difference is very minimal, especially if its got a true bypass switch.

FALSE
The LM308 difference is night and day! I had a rat 2 and I bought a rat from the 90's, big box with LM308, and the improvement in sound is immense. The LM308 cleans a lot of the high-end, treble noise so it is a much cleaner, fuller distortion. The rat 2 doesn't compare. Get the LM308.

Johno · Post by **Johno** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:16 am

All RATS sound great IMO...... I don't hear the difference with the mojo chip

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:34 am

The best Rat i've ever had is the one I currently have made by Christian at Magnetic Effects, it has the mojo chip and a few tweaks by him to add bass and reduce the high end. It sounds the bollocks and has a switch to put it into Turbo mode too.

Post by **Doog** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:55 am

Berto wrote:
71Smallbox wrote:There is a difference in sound, but its minimal at best, if anything it makes the distortion characteristic "richer" sounding. The main difference between the 2 if they have the same chip is that one has an LED and the other doesn't, the sound difference is very minimal, especially if its got a true bypass switch.
FALSE
The LM308 difference is night and day! I had a rat 2 and I bought a rat from the 90's, big box with LM308, and the improvement in sound is immense. The LM308 cleans a lot of the high-end, treble noise so it is a much cleaner, fuller distortion. The rat 2 doesn't compare. Get the LM308.

Watch my video, and tell me that's a "night and day" difference.

AaronGuitarDude · Post by **AaronGuitarDude** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:57 am

for me Rat 2 sound ways better than the old rat. for me it's punchier. so get a Rat 2

h8mtv · Post by **h8mtv** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:06 am

I recently made a dual Rat pedal or a customer. One used the LM308 and the other a modern ( OP07 if I remember correct?) chip. On both I put switches to go from Rat to Turbo. I decided 2 add the turbo switches after I couldnt tell the difference between the two. There are lots of components that make a difference in the overall sound, not just one IC. On the two in one pedal I used the same caps and resistors, only difference was the IC.

Viljami · Post by **Viljami** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:11 am

I have the mojo chip one, and the I too would say the difference is minimal. To me, the newer one is a bit more fluffier in sound, kinda like someone added some cotton candy there.
Anyway IT IS A GOOD PEDAL, and WORTH GETTING ANYWAY. I think you really need bat's ears to say that the difference is "night and day".

Sidenote, is the Turbo version good?

Berto · Post by **Berto** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:21 am

i also had a turbo. great pedal IMO and i want to get another one.

Berto · Post by **Berto** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:28 am

i agree that in the video the difference is minimal, but when I was deciding which rat to keep the big box rat just sounded better to my ears.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:28 am

Viljami wrote: Sidenote, is the Turbo version good?

To my ears the TurboRat has a fuller, or more saturated, sound. It sounds really good but it's not really the kind of sound I like to use.

Post by **Doog** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:32 am

For reals, any differences between Berto's two RATs were almost certainly down to the sum of all the slightly different components between the two production runs of these pedals, rather than this one single mojo-vodoomagicfeathers OPamp chip that people pay over the odds for.

CAN'T STAND POINTLESS OBSESSING OVER TINY COMPONENTS ARGHHHHH ORANGEDROP CAPS, YOU'RE NEXTTTTTTTTT

Johno · Post by **Johno** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:37 am

Doog wrote:For reals, any differences between Berto's two RATs were almost certainly down to the sum of all the slightly different components between the two production runs of these pedals, rather than this one single mojo-vodoomagicfeathers OPamp chip that people pay over the odds for.

CAN'T STAND POINTLESS OBSESSING OVER TINY COMPONENTS ARGHHHHH ORANGEDROP CAPS, YOU'RE NEXTTTTTTTTT

Amber switch tips bring mojo tone though right?

Post by **Doog** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:47 am

Obviously.

johnnyseven · Post by **johnnyseven** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:48 am

I don't want to start an argument, but I once had a TurboRat in which I changed the IC to an LM308 (no other components were changed) and to my (cloth) ears it definitely lost top end and became darker and thicker as a result.

71Smallbox · Post by **71Smallbox** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:16 pm

All Rat pedals sound awesome, some just sound better than others, even if its slight.

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:25 pm

Doog, thanks for the demo video. I really don't think I heard any difference at all between the two.

It's not that I'm an obsessive mojo hound or an amberswitchtipper. It's just that I'm still finding my way around the world of pedals and most of what I've seen on forums is people claiming that you have to get this chip for it it to sound any good or else it's completely useless. Since the difference, to my years anyway, is minimal, I figure I might as well save some cash and just get a US-made Rat 2 for $50.

Now I just have to consider a Rat 2 vs. a Turbo Rat. I wish I could just buy a damned Deucetone RAT but can't justify spending that much right now.

71Smallbox · Post by **71Smallbox** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:58 pm

The main difference between the Rat 2 and the Turbo Rat is that instead of clipping diodes in the distortion part of the circuit, the Turbo Rat has LED's. It changes the way it sounds, it will distort less(though still quite a bit) and it will be capable of being louder than the Rat 2. Bassists like the Turbo Rat alot. So do the Thurstonz and Ranaldoz.