NGD / Project: Epiphone Dot

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:25 am

So I've been hankering for a 335-style guitar for a while now. Owned a Sheraton II years ago and enjoyed it...Epi's quality really is top notch for what you pay, and I liked the neck. Today I put a wanted ad up on craigslist...and got offered what I considered to be an incredible deal. Epiphone Dot standard (not Studio), with a Gibson hard shell case for $200.

First thing I asked the guy is, what's wrong with it? There's a chunk missing out of the fretboard, he says. Then I ask, what color is it? Transparent red, he says. (One of my least favorite colors.) So I'm reluctant. But hell, it's $200 with a nice case. I agree to meet the guy. I play it, and WOW. He said it had been professionally set up, and I believe him...the action is amazing, no fret buzz to speak of up and down the entire neck, and the frets are dressed well. Looks like it's barely been played. Naturally I brought it home.

I really don't like the red, though, which is why this is in this forum: I'm planning on refinishing it in a solid white. Not sure what color to use. I don't want something as bright as oly white, but don't really want a vintage white either. I'll figure something out. Other plans for it are Mosrite pickups and a Bigsby (or possibly a Gibson Vibrola style trem).

The missing chunk:

That should be easily fixed with a sawdust / epoxy combo. Won't look as nice as it originally did obviously, but it'll be fine.

Comparing a Mosrite pickup to a humbucker:

As you can see, the Mosrite pickup is slightly wider, and thinner. I may have to do some routing, but that's ok.

Gonna start on it very soon...as in hopefully I'll have it sanded down and primered this weekend. Not going to sand through the whole finish, just rough up the existing poly and spray over it.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:10 am

a couple of things. Adding a bigsby isn't as easy on there guitar as you'd thing UNLESS you buy the vibramate kit. The issue is that the back post is where the ground goes to, and if you take those post out you're left with big holes and the string aren't grounded, so you'll get a big buzz the whole time. And I'm not sure how exactly you ground the ground wire to the bigsby without have exposed wire or drill a hole in the guitar. I'm sure if I really wanted to do, I could find a way to get clever with it, maybe just wrapping the bridge ground around the screw that the bigsby is installed with work.

second, I'm not sure how painting over binding works. do you mask off the binding when you shoot color? wouldn't that create an uneven bump in the clear coat that would stick out? I've never really understood how people did it except maybe take the binding off, paint the guitar, route for the binding, THEN clear coat it. That's how I figured they'd do in factories, but I don't really know. So, if you figure that one out, I'd be curious to see how you do it.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:30 am

Huh, good to know about the bridge ground. I'm sure there ought to be somewhere to ground the bridge. I'd planned on covering up the stop tail holes somehow, but the vibramate kit looks quite nice. I really wanted a Les Trem, but seems they're not made anymore.

As for the binding, I plan on sanding everything down (including the clear over the binding), then masking off the binding, then painting. Then clear-coating. The clear should level everything out on its own due to the nature of clear. You just sand / buff everything even later. Or so I'm told.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:40 am

well, if you're going to paint, it would be easy to fill the holes for sure.

if I was going to install a bigsby on a dot, I would drill a hole next to one of the holes your drilling to add the bigsy, and do the normal, strip about a quarter inch off let it sit on the bigsby and run the wirse through that hole to the back of a pot.

rewiring 335s is a bitch, they're just in general not that fun of guitar to work, to be honest. At least, not compared to easier things like teles and strats. It will be an awesome project when you're done, I just feel like everything it more complicated than it needs to be on these guitars.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:43 am

portugalwillie wrote:rewiring 335s is a bitch, they're just in general not that fun of guitar to work, to be honest. At least, not compared to easier things like fenders.

+1

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:07 am

Oh, they're not fun at all. In fact, they're a total pain in the ass, same as any semi-hollow. But they're so cool when done right. Had to do a few other things tonight but I should start stripping off the hardware and sanding tomorrow.

Johno · Post by **Johno** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:30 am

Have seen people leave the stop tail on when adding a bigbsy & just stringing through. Also save yourself a lot of aggro & wire the pups to the existing pup wire, otherwise its a lot of fishing about.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:40 pm

Yeah, I did that when I swapped pickups in my Sheraton before. I had planned on rewiring it entirely, there is a company (can't recall the name but I'll find it) that sells a wiring kit with CTS pots. The guy that bought my Sheraton actually did that. I recall him saying it wasn't something he'd ever want to do again...he wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Upon further consideration, I may just fix the fingerboard and flip this thing. These are $400 new, and regularly go for $250-350 without a case on eBay. The case itself is extremely rare, I can't find a value, but it's got to be worth around $150, or more. So I'd be looking at making at least twice what I paid

Then I could buy one in a color I actually like and forget about the refin, but still go ahead with the Mosrite pups and Bigsby.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:15 pm

I understand the best route for repairing rosewood fretboard is to take the frets off sand it down with a radius block, collect the dust and then pile it onto the repair area and soak it with super glue rather than epoxy. Then when dry you sand it again and re fret. The pots work is made easier if you attch strings to all components when you pull em out. Change pots and attach the same string and pull them back in.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:05 pm

the string is a clever idea . . .

as for the pulling of the frets, it seems like a ton of work when you could just buy a small piece of rosewood and do the same thing.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:15 pm

portugalwillie wrote:the string is a clever idea . . .

as for the pulling of the frets, it seems like a ton of work when you could just buy a small piece of rosewood and do the same thing.

Oh aye - that is indeed a simpler solution, but the super glue thing stands - firstly i know sonic youths tech does that on their fucked up boards, secondly Epoxy doesn't dry in a brittle dry fashion but rather ...ummm...shiny and not hard in the desired way. I've used both epoxy (Areldite) and super glue and SG is by far the better match for the purpose - epoxy was a distaster

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:23 pm

SCIENCE WILL BE SEEN HERE:

http://offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtop ... ood+repair

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:45 pm

Excellent thread; cheers! Yeah, removing the frets would be the proper thing to do, but I would only do it if necessary. The frets on that jazzblaster look trashed. I think usually that method is reserved for vintage guitars, or anything else where value is at stake. In my case, I won't be going to all that trouble, since it's a $300 guitar. Any old piece of rosewood should be fine, especially considering the frets are in great shape. Also, good point about epoxy being shiny. Is there some sort of special super glue you used? I always picture super glue as going on thin, and shiny. But that doesn't seem to be the case once it's mixed with the sawdust.

I'm flip-flopping on what to do with this thing. It plays great, so why let a good thing go? Plus, these Dots don't come in any other colors I really want. Refinishing would be a good experience, and if I muck it up, I could still probably sell it for what I have put into it.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:59 pm

Well if you're US based the sonic youth guy uses 'super thin JET brand'. I used the only super glue I had - a liquid type - and I suspect it's not as liquid as 'Jet'. My impression is he heaps the dust on, pours on the glue which permeates it like water would. My SG didn't work quite like that so I had to put glue on the area, then dab dust onto it , and repeat that process until built up. I then sanded flush ans it looked perfect

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:02 pm

Also - the DOTS are great - especially the ones made in the Samick factory - if you refinish by stripping the original finish be VERY CAREFUL if you use a solvent in the stripping - if you get that shit on the plastic binding it WILL melt. Trust me I've done it. Bets bet it to either leave a small gap by the binding and finish that purely with sandpaper or avoid the whole stripping and just key the finish with sandpapaper, mask offf the binding and spray over it. Check out RERANCH forum for refinishing details galore or feel free to PM any questions - I've learnt the harrrrd way

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:40 pm

Dave wrote:avoid the whole stripping and just key the finish with sandpapaper, mask offf the binding and spray over it.

That's my plan. No need to strip the whole finish if you're not doing a transparent color. The existing poly will act like primer once sanded smooth. Also, I do believe this was made in the Samick factory. I haven't looked up the serial number yet but it is definitely Korean-made.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:46 pm

Dillon wrote:
Dave wrote:avoid the whole stripping and just key the finish with sandpapaper, mask offf the binding and spray over it.
That's my plan. No need to strip the whole finish if you're not doing a transparent color. The existing poly will act like primer once sanded smooth. Also, I do believe this was made in the Samick factory. I haven't looked up the serial number yet but it is definitely Korean-made.

There's online search facilities - I had one that was Samick made and was the dogs knob. Traded it with GreenKnee who is conincidentally also refinishing it white (or at least that was the intention a when we traded). Really nice guitars. I'd own another in a heart beat

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:48 pm

I also owned an epi sheraton - they make great semis no doubt - at least from '91 to 2002

theshadowofseattle · Post by **theshadowofseattle** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:58 pm

My Riviera is the best electric I've ever played, but it's beat all to hell, so it mostly lives in its case until I can get it fixed up properly.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:15 pm

I use that get glue pretty much exclusively for super glue. The biggest problem with it and expoy is that neither are really sand-able.

do they make just a transparent wood glue? I feel like that would be ideal. The jet glue would certainly work, but if you use to much you be stuck with a bump from the glue, although anything is better than the way it is now.