New/Tedious Adventures In Bi-Amping

[Sloan]

Live i don't think I would worry about a delay, just spread 'em. There's gonna be a natural delay.

Studio; delaying a track might cause problems with mono compatibility which is more important than many believe.
Double tracking simulates the natural delay from a sound hitting one ear before bouncing around and hitting the other ear, but since the performance is even slightly different it usually doesn't cause mono/phase issues. So don't be lazy if you can help it, do another take! It's good to change something up a bit, record it with a different guitar or something.

This is generally related to the Hass Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haas_effect



I experimented with spacing out between two amps a long time ago on this fuckoff track, but not really to get a stereo sound, just a weird mono one.
http://music.sloanstewart.com/track/itchy-back-dog

I believe it was cyclone 2 > princeton chorus and hot rod deluxe facing each other. just one mic betwixt them and i think i added reverb as well. added all that other shit later just messing around. you can hear my brother and his friend walk in at the end and i crank the verb up. this is also the first time i accidentally chopped up a drum beat, i really liked it. there was no tempo or click, so it was just me manually fucking around and hoping it kinda fit.

[Grant]

This is generally related to the Hass Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haas_effect

Also worth reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect


Here's the bit about precedence from one of my classes:

(a) If [difference in time between two identical sounds] is moderate (between 1 and 5 ms for clicks, as long as 40ms for music), a single sound is perceived ("echo suppression"). There is fusion.

(b) If fused, the location of the fused sound is determined mainly by the location of the first sound (precedence; aka law of the first wavefront).

(c) In the precedence region, the sounds might be discriminable [sic]; it is the location that is dominated by the location of the first sound.

(d)If the leading and lagging sounds are very different in quality, the precedence effect is overridden. But, precedence is substantial even against, for example, large differences in frequency content.

(e) There is a buildup time - trains of clicks are much more amenable to precedence than single clicks.

(f) Echo suppression is not complete - there is a small effect of the lagging sound

Shoutout to Dr. V. M. Richards at UCI for use of her lecture material.

And,

Sound segregation based on simultaneous differences/cues.
- Differences in fundamental frequency
- Differences in onsets
- Differences in spatial location
- Visual cues

If nothing else is working, try changing the lights!

[NickS]

My Firefox says it needs a plug-in but won't do anything about it.

plug-in here- http://www.interoperabilitybridges.com/ ... n-download

Thanks. Now it shows a picture of the player. Right click and select "show errors" and it says Media Player cannot access the file. Cut and paste the url for the mp3 into firefox 7.0.1 and it says "do you want to play it with Media Player?" and that works just fine. So the stand-alone can do what the plug-in can't.

[Doog]

Live i don't think I would worry about a delay, just spread 'em. There's gonna be a natural delay.

But prresuming your amps are either side of the stage and your audience is in the middle, it ain't gonna work.. unless you're playing a huge stage in a huge room.

I'll be playing my first show with this setup next weekend so maybe it'll turn out to be pointless.. will report back!

[stewart]

if you're mic'd up how would you do this? get the engineer to pan the amps left and right or blend them?

[lorez]

if you're mic'd up how would you do this? get the engineer to pan the amps left and right or blend them?

i would say panning them would be the best option

[Sloan]

If your talking live mic'ing, i don't know many venues that run stereo, there's not a whole lot of reason to do so.

[stewart]

i've had engineers ask if i want my amps panned before, but i've always said NNNNNOOOOOO. i reckon it'd give a really weird sound depending what side of the stage you were standing at (as an audience member).

[Doog]

It's a big improvement even in mono (I've tried the demo setup in various different levels of PANNAGE); ideal if the PA desk doesn't have a phase switch for each channel.

I think I've maybe done one show with Casa Bonita where the amps have been miked, so it's not a massive issue either way. I now use my Saltbooster as a huge volume CUT to the bass amp to allow me to monkey with the dynamics a bit like a 3rd band member would allow for, so the more spread, the better really.