I'm trying to figure out bass amps and am having a hard time.
When I want a guitar amp I look for cheap tube amps from the 60's. They're loud enough to play out with and have great tone for the most part. I've never spent more than $500 for a guitar amp and that was for my Fender Twin. I can't fathom a holier grail to plug into.
But when it comes to bass amps it seems like there's nothing of the sort available. Judging from the market, loud bass amps didn't even exist until the mid 70s and then everything is solid state except for certain high end models. Most new models look silly and ugly to me, as practical as the small form factors are. Then again an Ampeg SVT-CL with an 8x10 cab is WAYYYY too big and heavy and expensive.
This isn't so much a thread for recommend ME a bass amp since I'm not looking to buy right now, just trying to see some examples and discussion of quality rigs that don't break the bank and why they're good. Also some non-snobby opinions of what one should look for in a bass amp are welcome, like how much power is enough, how much output rating can vary from company to company, how much do tubes matter on bass; there's quite a few amps that fall into the tube preamp or tube simulation category, like the Orange Terror Bass head and the Ampeg SVT450H respectively, what kind of cabinet would you match up to a head and so forth.
Other question that comes to mind is are bass amps kind of just a matter of being loud enough with an EQ with most of the tone coming from the Bass itself and the fingers playing it?
"Worthy" Bass Amps
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I guess what I'm getting at is there seems to be a more distinct line in the bass world between pro-level monster rigs and the lower tier more practical amps than there is with guitar. I know I'm not going to find a vintage Ampeg SVT or a Marshall tube head for $600, but is there anything else that's not Behringer/Boogera that's equally as cool and not as famous (cheaper)?
Damn, 33lbs is pretty light. I have to say I am starting to open my mind to the "lightweight" bass amps like yours, even though style wise they're not my thing.
I actually have a GK Backline 112 right now, but it's just BARELY loud enough to keep up and when it does it's pretty distorted. I've been using my drummer's old Peavey combo with my BMP Germanium4 for distortion.
I actually have a GK Backline 112 right now, but it's just BARELY loud enough to keep up and when it does it's pretty distorted. I've been using my drummer's old Peavey combo with my BMP Germanium4 for distortion.
I like tubes for bass, but they're not as "necessary" as with guitar. I have a Peavey T-Max (currently fried and giving shocks) that has a hybrid selectable tube/SS pre and SS power, I love the grit I can get driving the tubes, and the clarity of the SS. My other amp is a SS Yorkville combo (200W, 115), and has enough power for gigging, but is kinda awkward. Solid state for bass is just fine in most cases, and most amps will take pedals well to add grit if you need it.
For small room gigging and easily jamming with a drummer, I'd suggest at least 200W, but your cab can reduce this a bit.
With my T-Max fried and a lack of local technicians, I'm looking towards something like an Orange Terror Bass; lots of power, tube gain, small unit... I would love to hear the new Super Bassman, but at $1000 more than the Orange, I doubt I'd go for it. Alternatively, I was kinda looking at another hybrid G&K.
A good 410 cab will cover you for frequency and volume pretty nicely with good definition. I'm kinda partial to a 115/210 combo myself, and 212 is a nice sound, though unusual for bass.
For small room gigging and easily jamming with a drummer, I'd suggest at least 200W, but your cab can reduce this a bit.
With my T-Max fried and a lack of local technicians, I'm looking towards something like an Orange Terror Bass; lots of power, tube gain, small unit... I would love to hear the new Super Bassman, but at $1000 more than the Orange, I doubt I'd go for it. Alternatively, I was kinda looking at another hybrid G&K.
A good 410 cab will cover you for frequency and volume pretty nicely with good definition. I'm kinda partial to a 115/210 combo myself, and 212 is a nice sound, though unusual for bass.
Donate to Ankhanu Pressekwatts wrote:That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.
That pretty much is what I was wondering, if a tube preamp is enough for a bass amp to sound legit. I was also looking at the Terror Bass, since they can be had all day for $600 used/blem and look awesome. It's a shame I can't seem to find any locally to try out though.
So those are 500watts, and most cabs in the sub-$500 range are rated at 400watts. Could those be used with it or would I need at least the rating of the amp? Do you think one through a cheap 4x10 like this would be a good match?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/fen ... 0000001001
So those are 500watts, and most cabs in the sub-$500 range are rated at 400watts. Could those be used with it or would I need at least the rating of the amp? Do you think one through a cheap 4x10 like this would be a good match?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/fen ... 0000001001
I've heard mixed reviews about those Rumbles... But the price is so low! I wasn't able to get one in without buying one to test the m, however.
Something to keep in mind is that the Terror only has Speakon output connections, so your cab will need them too.
As for lower power rated cabs with high power amps: don't crank the amp. SHOULD be ok...
Something to keep in mind is that the Terror only has Speakon output connections, so your cab will need them too.
As for lower power rated cabs with high power amps: don't crank the amp. SHOULD be ok...
Donate to Ankhanu Pressekwatts wrote:That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.
For the price and the weight, i havent heard very many amps that can compete with the stuff markbass makes. A little mark ii head can usually be picked up for 350 bucks, and they have a really nice 3dimensional bass sound, plenty of ins and outs, and a really responsive eq section. I think the one i have is 500watts, and weighs 6 pounds.
Otherwise, a cheaper powerful peavy head, and a sansamp bass driver can get really good tones.
Otherwise, a cheaper powerful peavy head, and a sansamp bass driver can get really good tones.
I say if you go with solid state you'd need at the very least 300-350 watts to be useful. I've played 200 watt SS bass amps and been drowned out by guitarists with 50 watt half stacks. The terror bass is a great amp and that's actually what I'm looking at now too. After years of gigging and dragging my 75 pound Ampeg SVT and 100 pound Mesa Powerhouse cab around I'm thinking about lighter weight amps. My cab tilts back and rolls so as long as I have a friend with a big enough car to move it, it's easy enough to move. But the head is a bitch to move around so an 11 pound terror bass would be awesome!
I'd stay far away from that Fender rumble cab. I had a cheap peavey 410 cab for a while, and it sounded like absolute crap. When I bought my Mesa and played the peavey deltabass head through that I realized that the cab was why it sounded so shitty. A good bass cab will really make all the difference, you can get a halfway decent SS bass head, and a really nice cab, and you'll sound good and cut through easily. The cab really matters a lot for bass. I'd look for a used Ampeg 410 cab, you can find them for $350 or less if you look hard enough and they will handle 500 watts, and they'll actually sound much better too. They will also have speakon inputs if you get a newer one so if you get a terror bass you wouldn't have to worry about finding a new cab to go with it. A used terror bass would be a great option, but if you need something cheap for in the meantime, I'd look for a used SS head that will retain it's value and a nice cab, use the head until you can save up enough money to sell it and buy a terror bass, but I'd say you need to focus on finding a nice cab, so you might need to plan to spend more on a cab than you were. I think you could honestly find a 410 ampeg and either a solid state Ampeg SVT 350 or 450, or a Peavey head of some sort that will do really well for you until you can save up a bit more for an orange terror bass.
Also, like Slaon said, get a Sansamp DI if you're playing venues where you'll be running DI. They also sound awesome, and I've had friends with cheap SS amps that they run the sansamp through the Power amp in and they get a sound pretty damn close to my actual Ampeg SVT! You might find that this option will be good enough to where you don't even feel the need to buy a more expensive amp.
I'd stay far away from that Fender rumble cab. I had a cheap peavey 410 cab for a while, and it sounded like absolute crap. When I bought my Mesa and played the peavey deltabass head through that I realized that the cab was why it sounded so shitty. A good bass cab will really make all the difference, you can get a halfway decent SS bass head, and a really nice cab, and you'll sound good and cut through easily. The cab really matters a lot for bass. I'd look for a used Ampeg 410 cab, you can find them for $350 or less if you look hard enough and they will handle 500 watts, and they'll actually sound much better too. They will also have speakon inputs if you get a newer one so if you get a terror bass you wouldn't have to worry about finding a new cab to go with it. A used terror bass would be a great option, but if you need something cheap for in the meantime, I'd look for a used SS head that will retain it's value and a nice cab, use the head until you can save up enough money to sell it and buy a terror bass, but I'd say you need to focus on finding a nice cab, so you might need to plan to spend more on a cab than you were. I think you could honestly find a 410 ampeg and either a solid state Ampeg SVT 350 or 450, or a Peavey head of some sort that will do really well for you until you can save up a bit more for an orange terror bass.
Also, like Slaon said, get a Sansamp DI if you're playing venues where you'll be running DI. They also sound awesome, and I've had friends with cheap SS amps that they run the sansamp through the Power amp in and they get a sound pretty damn close to my actual Ampeg SVT! You might find that this option will be good enough to where you don't even feel the need to buy a more expensive amp.
I've never had issues keeping up (or being too loud) with 200W Solid State.Billy3000 wrote:I say if you go with solid state you'd need at the very least 300-350 watts to be useful. I've played 200 watt SS bass amps and been drowned out by guitarists with 50 watt half stacks.
Yeah, The Ampeg 410SVT is an almost ideal cabinet. Bit steep new, but are available reasonably used.Billy3000 wrote:I'd look for a used Ampeg 410 cab, you can find them for $350 or less if you look hard enough and they will handle 500 watts, and they'll actually sound much better too.
Definitely good advice here.Billy3000 wrote:... I'd say you need to focus on finding a nice cab, so you might need to plan to spend more on a cab than you were. I think you could honestly find a 410 ampeg and either a solid state Ampeg SVT 350 or 450, or a Peavey head of some sort that will do really well for you until you can save up a bit more for an orange terror bass.
Yeah, the SansAmp is kind of a little bit of magic for live bass playing. I haven't bought one, but it's been one of those pieces of gear that I know I will put to use, but waffle on every time... I really should just pull the trigger.Billy3000 wrote:Also, like Slaon said, get a Sansamp DI if you're playing venues where you'll be running DI. They also sound awesome, and I've had friends with cheap SS amps that they run the sansamp through the Power amp in and they get a sound pretty damn close to my actual Ampeg SVT! You might find that this option will be good enough to where you don't even feel the need to buy a more expensive amp.
Donate to Ankhanu Pressekwatts wrote:That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.
Good post Billy, thanks for the info, very helpful, especially the suggestion of the Ampeg 4x10's.
What's the general opinion of the "new" Acoustic stuff? I'm very hesitant to invest in a fake guitar center exclusive brand but they do look pretty cool and have good online reviews.
There's a used Acoustic B200H 200w head at my guitar center for $150.
What's the general opinion of the "new" Acoustic stuff? I'm very hesitant to invest in a fake guitar center exclusive brand but they do look pretty cool and have good online reviews.
There's a used Acoustic B200H 200w head at my guitar center for $150.
My buddy has an Ampeg BA115HP, 220 watts to a ampeg 15". Weights in at 80 pounds but with casters you really only need to fear stairs.
Sounds like you would expect an ampeg to. Handles medium sized venues with easy, its properly loud.
http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/b ... index.html
Sounds like you would expect an ampeg to. Handles medium sized venues with easy, its properly loud.
http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/b ... index.html
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damienblair17
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If you want old and awesome, check out 70's and 80's Acoustic stuff. I have a 140 head that sounds great through an Ampeg 2x10. The head is rated at around 100 watts and is plenty loud. I used to play through a 4x10 and that was total overkill.
Ampeg and Fender stuff tend to have really big lows while Acoustic (both old and new) have a little more top.
Ampeg and Fender stuff tend to have really big lows while Acoustic (both old and new) have a little more top.
That's the kind of answer I was looking for...classic stuff that worked back then and still does today, and doesn't break the bank like a vintage SVT.
What I don't get is solid state bass amp ratings. You say your 100 watt old Acoustic is plenty loud...also the Peavey TKO 65 112 combo I play at my drummer's is also loud enough clean to keep up with at only 65 watts through a 112, but my 100 watt 112 GK combo just barely makes it, and when it does it's no longer clean.
Did they start using bigger numbers across the board to entice bass players into thinking they needed more power? Is one brand's 150 watts equivalent to another brand's 300?
Also should I take your last comment to mean that new Acoustic stuff sounds like the old stuff? Considering Guitar Center is the only dealer and the music store least likely to have a vintage acoustic amp kicking around, I won't be able to try them side by side
What I don't get is solid state bass amp ratings. You say your 100 watt old Acoustic is plenty loud...also the Peavey TKO 65 112 combo I play at my drummer's is also loud enough clean to keep up with at only 65 watts through a 112, but my 100 watt 112 GK combo just barely makes it, and when it does it's no longer clean.
Did they start using bigger numbers across the board to entice bass players into thinking they needed more power? Is one brand's 150 watts equivalent to another brand's 300?
Also should I take your last comment to mean that new Acoustic stuff sounds like the old stuff? Considering Guitar Center is the only dealer and the music store least likely to have a vintage acoustic amp kicking around, I won't be able to try them side by side
What about Sunn? The 200s or the Spectrum 1 both seem up my alley. 50-60 watts tube (which folks seem to think is plenty loud), made in the late 60s, and can often be had for under $500. Anyone have experience with either? Their solid state stuff looks pretty rad too, like the Concert Bass.
I will be using a P-Bass right now, and eventually also a Rickenbacker 4003, so I want something that will react well to both basses.
I will be using a P-Bass right now, and eventually also a Rickenbacker 4003, so I want something that will react well to both basses.
Volume is really more about drivers and cabinet design than wattage, though wattage is a component. I really don't get the wattage ratings either... but, more power will be more capable of moving the driver through the travel distances required for loud bass frequencies. I've always found 200W as a safe range, but have been fine and drowned out below that, down to even 15W! I used to only own a 15W 8" combo; it's a piece of garbage, but could be heard above drums, though it was distorted 
Sunn in general have some solid gear, I haven't seen their bass amps, though.
I've played through a couple Acoustics, though older models. They sounded pretty nice, with good definition and plenty of power. Jaco used an Acoustic 360...
Honestly, in most venues, the sound guy is going to want to DI your bass anyway, by my experience. Your amp is more like your stage monitor in those cases... it almost doesn't matter. That in mind, sometimes they don't mind if you just run the amp... and there are many venues without DI sound for anything but vocals, so it's good to be prepared.
As for your P and 4003, as long as your amp has a good EQ section, it should handle the characters of each bass fine.
Sunn in general have some solid gear, I haven't seen their bass amps, though.
I've played through a couple Acoustics, though older models. They sounded pretty nice, with good definition and plenty of power. Jaco used an Acoustic 360...
Honestly, in most venues, the sound guy is going to want to DI your bass anyway, by my experience. Your amp is more like your stage monitor in those cases... it almost doesn't matter. That in mind, sometimes they don't mind if you just run the amp... and there are many venues without DI sound for anything but vocals, so it's good to be prepared.
As for your P and 4003, as long as your amp has a good EQ section, it should handle the characters of each bass fine.
Donate to Ankhanu Pressekwatts wrote:That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.
I HATE that about sound guys, it was always an issue in my last band, with both our bass player and my keyboards. I would always prefer shows where we were mic'd and I just plugged my keyboard or organ into the other channel of my Fender Twin (I wasn't playing both guitar and keys so it worked fine).Ankhanu wrote: Honestly, in most venues, the sound guy is going to want to DI your bass anyway, by my experience. Your amp is more like your stage monitor in those cases... it almost doesn't matter. That in mind, sometimes they don't mind if you just run the amp... and there are many venues without DI sound for anything but vocals, so it's good to be prepared.
Luckily the few shows I've played with my current band with me on bass I was mic'd, and I intend to insist on this in the future.
I've had about half and half as far as venues wanting DI vs mic for bass. Most sound guys prefer DI, and they're excited when I tell them I have a sansamp to use for that. But I've played a bunch of venues where they prefer to mic my cab, and some where they say they'll do either one. The sansamp has been extremely useful for me. I've used it for recording, for DI at shows, and when I was between bands and didn't want to lug my rig around I brought my sansamp and plugged into bands' PA systems and it worked pretty well.
I've heard great things about vintage SUNN amps and vintage Acoustic amps. I haven't had any friends who have performed or played in bands with the newer ones, but I've taught a few students who have had them. One of my bass students has the 20 watt combo and it sounded pretty good and seems to be pretty reliable and well built. I have two brothers that I teach and they have an acoustic guitar amp from Acoustic that they also play bass through and use for vocal mics. It sounds pretty good, but it seems to always pick up radio signals, which makes me think there's some sort of shielding problem or something.
I also have a friend that has a Carvin bass amp, I have no idea which model but he tours with that and he also owns an SVT VR. He gets a great sound out of the Carvin, and says it was pretty cheap too. I'd keep your eye out for one of those too.
I've heard great things about vintage SUNN amps and vintage Acoustic amps. I haven't had any friends who have performed or played in bands with the newer ones, but I've taught a few students who have had them. One of my bass students has the 20 watt combo and it sounded pretty good and seems to be pretty reliable and well built. I have two brothers that I teach and they have an acoustic guitar amp from Acoustic that they also play bass through and use for vocal mics. It sounds pretty good, but it seems to always pick up radio signals, which makes me think there's some sort of shielding problem or something.
I also have a friend that has a Carvin bass amp, I have no idea which model but he tours with that and he also owns an SVT VR. He gets a great sound out of the Carvin, and says it was pretty cheap too. I'd keep your eye out for one of those too.