P90 vs. P100

[paul_]

P100's are like a stacked humbucker but the coil on the back is a dummy coil, so you get the humcancelling without true humbucking sound (though it's worth noting that the subsequent lack in twangle and trebz leaves you feeling like you have a humbucker, because P90s aren't the furthest thing from buckers in the first place in terms of sound, if you turn the tone knob down a bit on one you've essentially got a PAF sound)

Gibson make a true humbucker-in-P90 case now called the H90, I think so far it's only been in the BJA Junior.

I scored a Custom Historic P90 on teh cheapz awhile back, can't wait to try it. Am using much-better-than-expected GFS dogear right now.

[Doug]

Yeah, the Epiphone ones'll be better than the Gibsons.

Not sure at all about the Epi pups, Ben, but...

Now I've heard lotsa criticism of P100s in the Les Paul Jr. Special...so, are P100s plain bad, or better in some axes than in others...or do they just not quite sound the way we expect they should, as in comparison to our beloved P90?

I honestly don't know the answers...just askin.

BTW, in a post above, I'd said BluesHawks have P100s. Wrong. They do have P90s.

[mickie08]

I had a blueshawk with p100s. Swappred them for p90.s Sounded much better. This was years ago as that was my first real guitar.

[DaveB]

I think the biggest problem with a P100 is, it looks like a P90 but doesn't sound like one. If they were trying for a hum free P90 sound, they lost it in the translation somewhere. It doesn't have the bite of a P90. I do find the low end lacking. Mine is a dog ear in a set neck EPI Jr. I highly doubt the korina body will have much effect on the tone. That said, I kinda like the sound of it. It is more single coily than any humbucker I've had. When I got this I had full intentions of putting a P90 in it (i'm still going to). The more I play it, the harder a time I have dismissing it.

[Doug]

I think the biggest problem with a P100 is, it looks like a P90 but doesn't sound like one. If they were trying for a hum free P90 sound, they lost it in the translation somewhere. It doesn't have the bite of a P90. I do find the low end lacking. Mine is a dog ear in a set neck EPI Jr. I highly doubt the korina body will have much effect on the tone. That said, I kinda like the sound of it. It is more single coily than any humbucker I've had. When I got this I had full intentions of putting a P90 in it (i'm still going to). The more I play it, the harder a time I have dismissing it.

If I follow you, Dave, you're saying you have the P100 in your EPI Jr. and are getting to like the sound. Though you'll eventually replace it with a P90.

I'm relatively new to electric guitars, so I don't have much to go on. That said, I love my BluesHawks with their original Blues P90s and understand they are P90s with a slightly different wind...that they are only hum-free because of a dummy coil mounted in the body between the two Blues P90s. Not stacked. And I never considered their sound might be noticeably different from a P90.

But P100s I've not heard yet.

I also have a Les Paul Special and I'm not sure I can hear a difference between those P90s and the BluesHawks' P90s. Maybe that's just my lack of experience. Or my tinnitis...

[DaveB]

Funny you should bring this up again. I got a cheap ceramic P90 to try in another guitar ($17). It wasn't going to work out. Into Jr it went. It is 7.2K as opposed to the 9.4K of the P100. It doesn't sound that much different. Maybe it's more a function of the materials than construction. I'm sure Epiphone spared no expense when constructing P100's. They'll have similar cheapass magnets in there. Oh well, back to plan A and an alnico P90 of some sort.

[hotrodperlmutter]

I'm sure Epiphone spared no expense when constructing P100's.

lulz

[Doug]

I'm sure Epiphone spared no expense when constructing P100's.

lulz

They might be very good, maybe better than Gibson P100s. ...I honestly know nothing about the Epi P100s so it's good to learn your experience with them, Dave.

We have a lot of passion for our instruments and tone. Artistic enthusiasm creates pretty strong mythology about guitars, woods, pickups, amps, and so on. Especially since we musicians tend not to pay much attention to the science.

So the issue I'm focusing on right now is how much of the negative opinions about P100s is myth vs. objective, measurable difference. Similar to the tone-woods opinions. We know that in electric guitars, the wood makes very little difference in tone when scientifically measured. So when one person's ears hear a difference between ash and basswood, that's mostly placebo.

How much do we know scientifically about the audible difference between any of the P100s and any of the P90s? That's a rehtorical question...unless there's a scientifically-based technician reading this

[DaveB]

I'm no musician, nor technician. I just scare neighbourhood cats and dogs as well as get odd looks from passers by while I wring the last decibel from a 10" Celestion.
Psychoacoustics is a weird game. I find my Bronco and Strat change to my ears on a weekly basis. No idea why. Sometimes they sound brilliant, other times, not. The Junior sounds a little more consistent. I want to see if I can find a current production pickup that floats my boat and I can live with. I'll go with the grass is always greener..........

[Doug]

I'm no musician, nor technician. I just scare neighbourhood cats and dogs as well as get odd looks from passers by while I wring the last decibel from a 10" Celestion. ...Psychoacoustics is a weird game. I find my Bronco and Strat change to my ears on a weekly basis. No idea why. Sometimes they sound brilliant, other times, not. The Junior sounds a little more consistent. I want to see if I can find a current production pickup that floats my boat and I can live with. I'll go with the grass is always greener..........

Yep, I agree. We have fun playin with our toys. Science? Maybe i'll think about it later.

[benecol]

In amongst all of the accusations of tone-snobbery in a thread asking for the differences between two pickups with very different sonic characteristics, this is a very good point:

I think the biggest problem with a P100 is, it looks like a P90 but doesn't sound like one.

[Doug]

In amongst all of the accusations of tone-snobbery in a thread asking for the differences between two pickups with very different sonic characteristics, this is a very good point:

I think the biggest problem with a P100 is, it looks like a P90 but doesn't sound like one.

Didn't pick up on the accusations of tone snobbery. Everyone on the thread seems pretty respectful of each others' opinions. We can all use an occasional reminder, though. Thanks, Benecol.

Ya know, many of you say you hear a difference between the P100 and the P90. I really haven't noticed the difference between them...my ears are just over 2 years new to learning electric guitar, so my inexperience might be part of the issue. But I haven't given them a fair comparison either. Using the same amp, same settings, and playing the two pickups back to back, same tune. Trying to use the same attack...I need to do this and let you know what I hear.

Anyone have suggestions for how I can set up my own fair comparison test?

[Dingus]

My experience maybe a bit unfair (comparison wise), but I bought one of those Epiphone Les Paul Jr '57 RI Limited Edition Custom Shop etc... jobbies (I think Sloan has one) when they were selling them a while back (the one with the set-neck and the nice paint job, not those $99 ones that are everywhere) and it had the (Epiphone Version) P100 in it. I absolutely hated it. So I promptly researched what would make a good replacement for a LP JR, ya know just a bridge pickup in there, and decided that the Lollar P90 (slightly overwound) pickup would be my choice.


Love the Lollar P90, between that and an upgraded bridge, that Epi makes a helluva guitar. For what its worth though, I recently bought an Epiphone SG Jr (the older cheaper one with the bolt-on neck), and I actually like the pickup in that. Although since I got it off craigslist there could be a replacement pickup in it (will check it out next time I change strings).

[hotrodperlmutter]

Epiphone Les Paul Jr '57 RI Limited Edition Custom Shop etc... jobbies (I think Sloan has one) when they were selling them a while back (the one with the set-neck and the nice paint job, not those $99 ones that are everywhere) and it had the (Epiphone Version) P100 in it. I absolutely hated it.

if you're talking about the tv yellow one, that's my old one, and the precise reason i sold it. the pickup was utter shit in any scenario.

[Doug]

Epiphone Les Paul Jr '57 RI Limited Edition Custom Shop etc... jobbies (I think Sloan has one) when they were selling them a while back (the one with the set-neck and the nice paint job, not those $99 ones that are everywhere) and it had the (Epiphone Version) P100 in it. I absolutely hated it.

if you're talking about the tv yellow one, that's my old one, and the precise reason i sold it. the pickup was utter shit in any scenario.

Thanks for the photo, HotRod...that's the P100 in your picture? Are all P100s dogeared?

[Doug]

Okay, guitar afficionados...what's this, now? An interesting article titled "Fifty Guitars You Must Play Before You Die" (much better option than one last smoke):

http://www.musicrada....e-198927/1#!16

"Gibson ES-135... The result of an illicit liaison between an ES-175 and an ES-335, this semi is an unsung hero. It has a solid centre section, but with a two-and-a-quarter-inch body depth. Go for the one with f-holes and P-100 pickups: brilliant for rock 'n' roll, jazz, fusion..."

So what the hell does this mean to the majority...who tried and did not like P100s

I'm just askin.

[Cvillethug]

So what the hell does this mean to the majority...who tried and did not like P100s

nothing.