NEW Fender Blacktop Jaguar

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:06 pm

Ankhanu wrote:To me, one of the defining features of the Jaguar is its switching. The body and scale are obviously very important, but the switching is part of what makes it what it is.

Some people beg to differ.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:30 pm

endsjustifymeans wrote:Why is this any less a jaguar then a strat with a three way, a hardtail and 'buckers is a strat?

Get hold of yourselves. You know what this is, it's a jaguar that you don't have to block the trem on. It's a jaguar that you don't have to tape over the fiddly switches on. It's a jaguar that you don't have to route for buckers. None of these are unheard of modifications to Jags.

Pens is spot on. They gave us another shortscale, and you lot are chastising them for it. And there's clearly a market for it, because... well, I like it.

Time to change you pad, I think you guys are on your period-correct.

I dont think anyone is worked up Ends, just giving their opinion. Personally i could care less, i've got my Jag and its all i need. It sounds like a Jag and looks like a Jag.
If you buy a Strat, put humbuckers in it etc its no longer a Strat or atleast no longer sounds like a Strat. Visually it is but it does'nt make sense to completely change the character of the guitar... you may as well buy something else.

As for Cobain and a lot of players from that era, they used Jags because they were a relatively cheap Fender. Nothing to do with its tone, he may had well had used a SG.

Mages · Post by **Mages** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:39 pm

Pens wrote:Maybe they are taking a bet that the reason they are a "small segment" is because of the a)price and b)switching complexity of the Jaguar, and are trying to expand that by making it more appealing? The numbers on the Jagmasters and Jaguar HH sold might be indicating that people want something like this.

exactly. this way everyone gets a piece of the pie, squier, fender usa and fender japan. and it provides the consumer with an option at every price point. this blacktop jag sits nicely between the jagmaster and jag HH. price-wise and feature-wise.

Pens · Post by **Pens** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:45 pm

LOL the switching isn't the Jaguar.

That body shape with 24" scale is a Jaguar. That body shape with 25.5" scale is a Jazzmaster.

Everything else is a huge fucking flaw in the Jaguar. There's a reason the Supersonic has pretty much replaced the Jag in my daily playing, and it's because it's simple and works and doesn't have 5 billion things to go wrong.

I seriously want to gut my Jag to pretty much make this guitar here. They took one of the most awesome looking guitars Fender has ever made and fixed every fucking flaw it had.

This thing is more of a Jaguar than my Jaguar is. Because it's the Jaguar that I want.

Put this way, a Strat is defined by it's body shape. A Tele has a fucking billion different configurations including the Deluxe version, but they are all TELE because of the BODY.

This is a fucking JAGUAR with a different CONFIGURATION.

Y'all need some tissues and fresh tampons.

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:49 pm

creepy avatar is creepy.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:00 pm

*shrugs*
The switching options are pretty integral to what I define as a Jaguar, in tandem with the body shape and scale length.

By your statement, the Jagmaster is also a Jaguar, sharing a body shape and (sometimes) a scale length.

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:15 pm

Do you guys realize how elitest it sounds to say, "oh, it's fine if they make it. but they just shouldn't call it a jaguar."

Why does it matter what the fucking thing is called? Fine, it's not a jaguar any more. Now it's the Fender CockNBalls. I can't wait to play a CockNBalls.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:21 pm

I have no problem being called elitist

In the end, yeah, it's just a name... but occasionally there's a lot of info conveyed in a name. Like it or not, labels have a heavy status... some labels are more restrictive than others, though, and what we're seeing here is a formerly relatively restricted label being broadened.

serfx · Post by **serfx** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:31 pm

i suspect i'll be picking one up.. in black..
and then installing a trem.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:49 pm

Ankhanu wrote:By your statement, the Jagmaster is also a Jaguar, sharing a body shape and (sometimes) a scale length.

This.
The Vista Jagmasters used a CIJ Jag body and neck off the same production line but its never been a Jaguar.
Also, all people keep going on about is aesthetics, how about the sound?

serfx · Post by **serfx** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:50 pm

gonna have to wait for them to know what they sound like..
that will be the true test of the instrument

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:54 pm

serfx wrote:gonna have to wait for them to know what they sound like..
that will be the true test of the instrument

Nice one. Lets hope it sounds like.................. a Les Paul

serfx · Post by **serfx** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:54 pm

Fran wrote:
serfx wrote:gonna have to wait for them to know what they sound like..
that will be the true test of the instrument
Nice one. Lets hope it sounds like.................. a Les Paul

oh.. so like a tele elite.. gotcha.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:56 pm

serfx wrote:
Fran wrote:
serfx wrote:gonna have to wait for them to know what they sound like..
that will be the true test of the instrument
Nice one. Lets hope it sounds like.................. a Les Paul
oh.. so like a tele elite.. gotcha.

With a bit of luck it might even sound like a Fender Sambora Strat-Ibanez-ESP thingy.

Pens · Post by **Pens** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:08 pm

Fran wrote:
Ankhanu wrote:By your statement, the Jagmaster is also a Jaguar, sharing a body shape and (sometimes) a scale length.
This.
The Vista Jagmasters used a CIJ Jag body and neck off the same production line but its never been a Jaguar.
Also, all people keep going on about is aesthetics, how about the sound?

I've always considered it to be a Jaguar with a shitty strat bridge and too chunky of a neck.

That, and they use fucked up conversion necks so you can't put a decent neck on them.

So they aren't really Jaguars in the same way a Highway One Strat is a strat as much as a '59 RI Strat is a strat.

You do realize how retarded this discussion is, right?

Let's just call them the Fender Blacktop and be fucking done with it, assholes. Fine, it's not a Jaguar despite sharing the same body and neck and being interchangeable with other Jaguars. To appease the elitests, it's not a fucking Jaguar.

Holy fuck this place has gone and turned into OFFSET.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:08 pm

Fran wrote:The Vista Jagmasters used a CIJ Jag body and neck off the same production line

i dunno how true this statement is.

in my side by side compari, they're either from two totally different guitars, or just mimicry. different contours, different grains, different bursts, different routes. we're getting into nitpicks now, but a vista jagmaster is basically a jaguar. the one thing that pushes it over the edge of not-being, is the strat trem. the only thing that deserves the 'master' is the pickguard shape.

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:10 pm

hotrodperlmutter wrote:
Fran wrote:The Vista Jagmasters used a CIJ Jag body and neck off the same production line
i dunno how true this statement is.

in my side by side compari, they're obviously two totally different guitars. different contours, different grains, different bursts, different routes. we're getting into nitpicks now, but a vista jagmaster is basically a jaguar. the one thing that pushes it over the edge of not-being, is the strat trem.

the necks are factually the same... dunno about the bodies.

The new one's bodies surely aren't jag shaped or contoured correctly. The new ones are, infact, shit.

Pens · Post by **Pens** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:12 pm

endsjustifymeans wrote:
hotrodperlmutter wrote:
Fran wrote:The Vista Jagmasters used a CIJ Jag body and neck off the same production line
i dunno how true this statement is.

in my side by side compari, they're obviously two totally different guitars. different contours, different grains, different bursts, different routes. we're getting into nitpicks now, but a vista jagmaster is basically a jaguar. the one thing that pushes it over the edge of not-being, is the strat trem.
the necks are factually the same... dunno about the bodies.

The new one's bodies surely aren't jag shaped or contoured correctly. The new ones are, infact, shit.

The necks aren't the same. They use those weird ass conversion necks, and it's way to chunky to be a Jag neck.

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:14 pm

Pens wrote:
endsjustifymeans wrote:
hotrodperlmutter wrote: i dunno how true this statement is.

in my side by side compari, they're obviously two totally different guitars. different contours, different grains, different bursts, different routes. we're getting into nitpicks now, but a vista jagmaster is basically a jaguar. the one thing that pushes it over the edge of not-being, is the strat trem.
the necks are factually the same... dunno about the bodies.

The new one's bodies surely aren't jag shaped or contoured correctly. The new ones are, infact, shit.
The necks aren't the same. They use those weird ass conversion necks, and it's way to chunky to be a Jag neck.

The original vista necks were 100% the same. They were just jaguar stock re-used. The new neck suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. I had my new jagmaster for a week before I sold the POS.

laterallateral · Post by **laterallateral** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:16 pm

Pens wrote:
endsjustifymeans wrote:
hotrodperlmutter wrote: i dunno how true this statement is.

in my side by side compari, they're obviously two totally different guitars. different contours, different grains, different bursts, different routes. we're getting into nitpicks now, but a vista jagmaster is basically a jaguar. the one thing that pushes it over the edge of not-being, is the strat trem.
the necks are factually the same... dunno about the bodies.

The new one's bodies surely aren't jag shaped or contoured correctly. The new ones are, infact, shit.
The necks aren't the same. They use those weird ass conversion necks, and it's way to chunky to be a Jag neck.

No we're talking about vistas, here. necks are the same. bodies aren't the same.
Vista or otherwise, Jagmasters are not Jaguars.