ShortScale.org

Do the shield claws on the Jag actually work out of interest?

And how are the MIM models overall for noise?

Medicine Melancholy wrote:

Fran wrote:

honeyiscool wrote:I don't think Jags are unreliable (this is me disagreeing, see?) at all.

If you give it the right setup, they're quite stable. The trem is easily more stable than a Strat trem, tunes a lot faster too, so I never understood why it got the reputation it did. I mean, I had a Mustang bridge the whole time, but that's the only mod I ever had.

I spent a good portion of the guitar learning period on a Mustang or a Jaguar, and consequently, I think my playing style kind of evolved for those guitars, and I never once had a problem that was due to the guitar, whereas I run into all kinds of issues playing a Strat. But of course, most people start on Strats, so they don't get the "quirky" or "idiosyncratic" label attached to them, despite the fact that I think a Strat has a more unique and niche sound than a Jaguar, which I think sounds universally good in all of its non-rhythm circuit settings. I mean positions 2 and 4 on a Strat are extremely niche sounds, it's just that they've been used so much that people have gotten used to them. They're not the generic good sounds like the N+B sound of a Jaguar, which you could use on every song and never run into issues.

I agree with some of that, especially on the tremolo and reliability. Like i said about 73 pages back, once you set a Jag up its a great guitar, but a CIJ model will need setting up like no other you have known unless a previous owner has done it.

I've owned six Jaguars over the years and they take some getting used to depending on your style of playing of course. The lack of sustain and third harmonics can be an issue for some players, never mind the short scale, bridge falling to bits, pickup claws/microphonic feedback and switching system.
Strat's are more simplistic in set-up and their sound is almost industry standard along with a few other famous models of guitar. I still prefer the Jag though.

If I'm getting the MIM or a properly done up CIJ(as many are on the aftermarket) I should be okay though? Some of the CIJs are a bit cheaper which is appealing, but I've more or less decided on the MIM for general less hassle. Plus I really like those pickups.

The MIMs were modified to correct problems, like the need for a 'buzzstop' (third harmonics, string slippage issues) by increasing the string angle over the bridge marginally closing the gap between the bridge and tremolo, and upgrading the original temperamental bridge. Which happens to rattle and grub screws work themselves loose within minutes.
However, purists will argue these things contribute (once corrected) to the Jaguars sound and they have a point.

Medicine Melancholy wrote:Do the shield claws on the Jag actually work out of interest?

Yes. Guys like Othomas on this forum have been playing Jags for years and noticed an improvement on sound removing the claws.
They were never wax potted, like the covers. I wax potted the whole unit (pup, claw, cover) and noticed a huge improvement with microphonic feedback on high gain settings.

Its worth using the search function and wiki for such specific topics dude, as much as we want to help, a lot of this has been discussed for years and you will learn more about specifics browsing old threads.

Ah okay, I'll go have a look now. I'm just bad at phrasing things for search.

Hi sorry... I did a search for noise, shielding with the CP Jags, and didn't get anything of much use... only a few threads turned up. There was one post from Mike saying his Jag didn't squeal like the CIJs though which was reassuring. Couldn't find an awful lot about the claws either. They're not really for reducing hum are they?

Are the CPs properly shielded/wax potted like the MIAs? It seems they are. So it shouldn't be overly noisy?

Buy it. Experiment. Learn.

chemistforhire wrote:Buy it. Experiment. Learn.

+1

not everything can be ran thru ur head hypothetically before hand, it takes some of the fun out of it

Here's some more anal facts about my personal CP which is all stock except for the R-circuit mod Mike did and a Stay-Trem arm:

The claws on it are wax potted as well onto the cover - not cranked it in a super loud setting but that should go some way to avoiding feedback issues according to theory and reports I've read.

They have shielding paint in the cavities I believe however using conductive copper tape is easy to apply and do if you need more

MM - I'm guessing you do some drop-D tuning based on one of your song titles so GET THIS: One of the things I LOVE about the Jag bridge is the trem-lock. You get the thing tuned to concert pitch and then keep adjusting the spring tension so that the locked and free setting hold the same tuning. What this means is that you can play normal tuning, slap the lock on, drop the E to a D in 1 second and there you have your drop D ready to go without changing the pitch of the other strings. I think its a fucking brilliant feature and I swap between the two all the time. I FUCKING LOVE IT.

One last gripe about the MIM - they say they altered the heel socket to give the neck more break angle. I call BS on that the neck is no more or less parallel than any other fender unless it's some tiny fraction. Not a fan of shimming by default as though that should be the standard....that should be last resort in a perfect world - wish fender would route their pockets with a millimeter or so upward slope.

Where's AVJ?? He is my brother in MIM CP anality and could bring the science here too. Mind you I don't think there's anything else that can possibly be described about these guitars: They're great, less to worry about that a CIJ/MIJ any issues like TOM radius can be dealt with with a small file, and they play really well. Considering I was selling mine I'm kind of back in love with it again.

Fran wrote:Not Jazzmasters. But in the Jags case the claw changes the magnetic path, coupled with 1m pots and completely different hardware including no tremolo sustain block it sounds completely different.
Imo the proximity of string distance from the surface of the body also makes a Strat sound more 'snappy'.

We could post demo's up of course which would throw these theories out into the water, but holding and playing these guitars for years you hear these things.

Yeah I don't know. I never clinically analyzed any of this. I play different guitars just to get a different feel, rarely do I pick up one guitar over another similar one for some tonal difference, even when I'm recording. I just think, I want to be playing this guitar, and then I just play it. I mean, sure, my Duncan Custom guitar sounds nothing like my DiMarzio Super Distortion guitar, and surely my stock Squier Deluxe Strat sounds nothing like the one I've fitted with Lace Chrome Domes, but I don't play any of these guitars with the same amp setting anyway, and by the time I get all of my guitars to sound "good," they sound like the amp model more than the guitar or pickup model, and they all sound just as good as my (lack of) playing ability.

A couple of months ago, I got bored so I changed the ceramic magnets on my P90s to AlNiCo magnets. There is apparently a huge difference in tone. I heard jack shit. I guess I'm just not a tone geek, but I do like to think I am a pretty good critic of tone. I just think that knowing how to work the knobs on your amp or pedal is where the holy grail of tone is better reached.

Medicine Melancholy wrote:And Mustangs while we're at it, since they seem to be particularly popular over there?

Mustangs pickups are unstaggered Strat pickups, as far as I care. They're not the same, of course, but given all the variations in Strat pickups, I'm sure there is a model of Strat pickup that sounds just like a model of Mustang pickup.

Mustangs aren't really popular anywhere except by short scale enthusiasts, but many of us just think of Mustangs as the ultimate short scale guitar.

Medicine Melancholy wrote:

honeyiscool wrote:Well, if we're talking stock, CIJ Jazzes and Jags basically feature Strat pickups, don't they? I don't know if that's true, my CIJ Jag had aftermarket pickups.

To me, Mustangs kind of sound like a variation on a Strat. Basically, the bridge pickup sounds very much like a Strat bridge, and the neck pickup sounds somewhere in between the middle and the neck of a Strat pickup (but closer to neck), which is probably because a Mustang neck pickup is located a bit closer to the bridge than on a Strat. That's nice because the neck can be used for some harder stuff as well. But thanks to the B+N wiring, the middle setting sounds much like a Tele B+N and then the out-of-phase is honk for miles.

Some Jazzmasters had actual Strat pickups under the covers, others are JM Pickups that are thinner so sound more or less like a Strat. The Jag is almost meant to feature Strat-like pickups, but the CIJs are thinner again.

I wonder if the same is true of Japanese Strats and Teles? And Mustangs while we're at it, since they seem to be particularly popular over there?

The CIJ JM pickups I had in both my JM's were alot taller than proper JM pickups and not wound as thick so they looked like a strat pickup in a JM pickup housing. Not sure if the sound compared to a strat as I took them out ages ago.

Regarding the point about people not really being able to tell recorded sounds of certain guitars, J Mascis is very famous for playing vintage Jazzmasters but I think I read somewhere that on a lot of the Dinosaur Jr recordings he played a Tele - I certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Dave wrote:The claws on it are wax potted as well onto the cover

Add another improvement onto the CP list

honeyiscool wrote:I play different guitars just to get a different feel, rarely do I pick up one guitar over another similar one for some tonal difference, even when I'm recording.

Same here. I know that kind of contradicts what i said earlier but its not meant to.
If i want to compare guitar tones i need a blank canvas, preferably a valve amp with a little crunch. That for me is where you can hear different chracteristics of model, yet going through a distorted Line 6 or Fuzz Face does'nt tell you anything imo. Same with pickup upgrades, if i put Hot Rails in the Tele is it still gonna sound like a Tele?

If you base everything on upgrades and modelling effects or whatever you are largely buying a model of guitar for aesthetic reasons and some 'feel' or function perhaps.

Shall we all buy an Ibanez RG550 and be done with it?

Yes!! 550 FTW (late 80's one, not gash re-issue job)

thread closed

Well, RG550s are very good guitars, I think we all know that, it's just I wouldn't want to take a picture with one in the same room.

I think a Roland JC-120 is the most transparent amp I've ever had, and every guitar sounds very distinct through one.

But for the most part, by the time it makes it to a song, yes, the basics do matter, like which pickup position you're on, and which basic type of pickup you're using, like is it an SC or an HB, but beyond that, I couldn't tell you what guitar I played on what recording except I have a good memory about these things. Just how often can you use an uncompressed clean guitar sound in a fully arranged song with vocals anyway?

I want to play a JC120 so bad! When you say it sounds 'transparent', do you mean in the way that a guitar might sound thru a P.A. system? Does it color the tone more like a fender or a vox tube amp?

I have no qualms about using solid state amps.

I mean that it sounds like the guitar. It's not like a PA, really, it has its own character. Excellent brightness, really lets the best of the guitar tone through.

The Jazz Choruses aren't quite as FRFR as people think, they're still pretty characteristic. It's more that the EQ they do have is kind of "optimal" for clean guitar, it sounds like the idealised clean sound, and also introduces less on the character of pedals(being very clean helps with this too).

There's a bunch of different circuits in those amps though so it's hard to characterise them as all the same.

Personally the best clean sound I've heard lately is actually the Hiwatt on my Pod HD.

In all honestly most pickups are just horridly voiced for going direct, you generally don't want to go FRFR ever. Basses are a bit better for whatever reason and some Bassists use keyboard amps. Similarly some guitarists use Bass amps, I think maybe to get closer to a fuller sound but still not FRFR.

Personally I wish more amps/speakers had a more full response and had an oldschool "presence" knob controlling the very high end. It would be great for me so I can go between Rawk tones and harsh fuzzy industrial shit.

The HH White is still going, but no sign of the CAR SS. They're both good choices really. The HH is more versatile but the SS is more of a Jag. If I get the SS I'll make sure to add some kind of switch to make the mid position in series.

Alright, so I was really interested in the Burgundy Mist Jag in the other thread, but the guy who was thinking of selling it has disappeared so I have no idea whether he wants to sell it or not.

Since then, a Candy Apple Red Classic Player has come up on eBay, and he says he'll ship internationally. If I managed to win that, that would do me just fine too, but I'd rather get the Burgundy Mist as it has a more unique look.

I'd also be pretty happy with a HH Classic Player too, as I like the functionality and the way it has a slightly more Tele vibe to the sound. There's one going here sort of locally, but it'd probably end up the most expensive of the lot to get(even with shipping, it's cheaper to get a guitar from the US).

I'm going to end up missing out on either the CAR or the Burgundy Mist, possibly both, depending on what I do and I'm very upset about it. As I said I don't mind going with the HH but it's the most expensive and possibly least unique option. I don't want to wait too much longer for a new guitar.

The drawback to the CIJ would be that it's humbucking with no coil split, I'd either have to install a coil split(Which wouldn't be as good as the Classic Player's, unless I replaced the rhythm circuit, and I have no idea how good those HBs would be for coil splitting) or swap the pickups(which probably wouldn't cost much if I bought some second hand, since the ones in there should sell). The drawback to the CAR is the lack of any humbucking sounds - I do like metal and use some high gain, but it's not too much of a bother. The drawback to the HH is I wouldn't get true single coil sounds without modding it, and some people don't like the sound split or full, though I think I'm cool with it.

Should I jump on the CAR? Or should I wait it out to see if he sells the BM CIJ? Or should I play it safe and go with the local option?

Either of the 3 would do me, I'm not deciding between which is best as such like before, it's just an awkward situation.

I'd go local. As much as i can vouch for that BM Jag being awesome you will have to face around £70 import tax plus the shipping.