ShortScale.org

Mike wrote:Hey you know all those Vintage 50s and 60s Strats, Telecasters, Jaguars and Jazzmasters everyone covets?

Do you know who they were made by?

Unskilled Mexican labour in a factory just across the border. That's right - pull your head out of your arse and you might learn something.

Whoa, Mike! That's a little strong and self-righteous, isn't it? Who is disparaging Mexican made products or Mexican workers? It is certainly not me. I was simply asking about your personal and collective experience with the Classic Players versus what I've read on other forums. Is it so wrong to question the quality of a new line of products? They certainly have the potential to be "as good as" or better than American products, but there are reasons they cost $700 less.

Ironically, I went to a local music store just last night to try a CP HH out for myself. Guess what? The neck pickup blender pot was not working properly. I notified one of the employees so their tech could take care of it or send it back to Fender. I also played regular CP Jag and a Jazzy. The JM seemed to be just fine, but the Jag had a loose bridge that wobbled any time the trem was used. Simple fix, but a detail that might have been addressed if it were an instrument of a higher price point. IMO, for that price they should have a "Corona" level of quality and care coming from the factory.

I detect some serious sensitivity to MIM Fender products here. While MIM products are generally fine products, it is foolish to believe that all Ensenada-made products and Corona-made products should be held to the same standard and quality. It has little to do with where it is made or who made it. It has everything to do with the components from which they are made, the systems that dictate how they are made, and the quality control throughout the process. Fender needs a reason to charge more for American-made products. Those reasons are better parts and improved attention to detail. MIM products are what they are. Cheaper versions of US-made products. Cost savings are built into the product and the process.

And the "coveted instruments from the 50s and 60s" argument is lame. They suffered terrible QC issues, too. More so than today. Any vintage collector will tell you not every Fender made in the so-called Golden Age of guitars is worthy of the adulation bestowed upon it because of its age. They made a lot of crap then, too. Machining and tolerances couldn't be maintained as tightly as today's equipment and technology. Even then, they were looking for cheap ways to make guitars. Their goal was to undercut Gibson's higher prices. Oh, and CBS-era Fender? Not exactly Fender's strongest effort, but it wasn't because of "unskilled" workers. Many of the same workers who built the hallowed classics churned out guitars with lower quality pots, smaller blocks, three-bold necks, SEVEN-piece bodies, etc. Along with every other industry in the 70's, Fender looked at the product and the system and figured out where they could cut costs.

So don't make this about the nationality, geography, or skill level of the people making these instruments. They've got production goals and manufacturing standards set for them by Fender. It is economies of scale. It is Fender applying a price to an acceptable level of quality as dictated by the free market. Feel free to remove your own head from your arse, refrain from assuming you're smarter than everyone, and educate yourself on the basics of business and economics.

Geez...

You're talking to Mike here mate.

Word Harder.

Mike or not, science was dropped.

Good post.

It could be condensed into "nothing is perfect".

Whcih we all know, it's just that quite a few people underrate MIM stuff unjustly.

arcadedave wrote:Mike or not, science was dropped.

Good post.

Thanks, but I'm not going to be accused of racism or mere snobbery...

Zaphod wrote:It could be condensed into "nothing is perfect".

Whcih we all know, it's just that quite a few people underrate MIM stuff unjustly.

Couldn't agree more, but don't just assume that is what I'm doing. I read what seemed to be a credible thread about spotty quality, asked a question, had first person experience with it, and then got Ozzied (head bitten off) by Mike.

Not cool.

I think Mike's just annoyed at people being snobbish over MIM stuff. When I read his post I read it as more a general fist shaking at the masses than directed at you.

I might be wrong though.

Zaphod wrote:I think Mike's just annoyed at people being snobbish over MIM stuff. When I read his post I read it as more a general fist shaking at the masses than directed at you.

I might be wrong though.

Hope so. I don't think I actually said anything that could be read with a rational mind and be considered offensive.

woodyjunior wrote:Hope so. I don't think I actually said anything that could be read with a rational mind and be considered offensive.

I don't really think that Mike did, either. His comments certainly didn't seem to be directed at you. I definitely don't think you got your "head bitten off," at any rate.

Mike wrote:That's right - pull your head out of your arse and you might learn something.

This sounded directed at me - after all, I was the one that raised the issue.

woodyjunior wrote:

Mike wrote:That's right - pull your head out of your arse and you might learn something.

This sounded directed at me - after all, I was the one that raised the issue.

How long did you lurk on the forum before posting? That's just the way that Mike talks. Most often it's directed at the community in general, but you have to take these things in context, and not get so offended. Or not. It's the internet, do what you want.

Ikebe-Gakki or Ishibashi (I can't remember which) was selling those KC toggle plates, I went as far as to find out the cost with an english speaking sales representative and it was something like $150 after shipping and price conversion. No thanks.

Edit:

http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/goods_detail.php?g_id=1929

brambleperro wrote:

woodyjunior wrote:

Mike wrote:That's right - pull your head out of your arse and you might learn something.

This sounded directed at me - after all, I was the one that raised the issue.

How long did you lurk on the forum before posting? That's just the way that Mike talks. Most often it's directed at the community in general, but you have to take these things in context, and not get so offended. Or not. It's the internet, do what you want.

Ya, that's just Mike being Mike. It was meant to be a royal "you", not "you" individually.

If Mike really wanted to have words with you, you'd know it.

Actually... I registered and signed up the first time I found this forum. I don't know Mike or anyone else here.

The LAST thing I want to do is become that guy. I'm really not that easily offended. For my first time conversing with the guy, it seemed like a pretty harsh response. I'll take the community's insights under advisement.

Royal 'you'? I'm cool with that. The royal 'we' was good enough for The Dude.

The Dude abides...

woodyjunior wrote:The Dude abides...

+1 to GNAR!

i'm actually over the snobbery AGAINST american made instruments. i'm tired of beig told that my american deluxe jazz bass is in no way superior to the MIM Jazz bass I sold off. i know for a fact the AMDEl is a better instrument. for all the reasons new guy dropped in true scientific fashion, i know it. it FEELS like a better instrument. it SOUNDS like a better instrument.

the "wank" active electronics give me tonal variety and clarity. the neck feels like a warm and lubed dick ready for the fuck. the body is perfectly balanced. there were NO FLAWS WITH IT OUT OF THE GATE AND I DON'T HAVE TO MOD THE FUCK OUT OF IT. gee...sounds like something that would deserve a much higher price tag, huh?

St. Jimmy wrote:the neck feels like a warm and lubed dick ready for the fuck

woodyjunior wrote:

Mike wrote:Hey you know all those Vintage 50s and 60s Strats, Telecasters, Jaguars and Jazzmasters everyone covets?

Do you know who they were made by?

Unskilled Mexican labour in a factory just across the border. That's right - pull your head out of your arse and you might learn something.

Whoa, Mike! That's a little strong and self-righteous, isn't it? Who is disparaging Mexican made products or Mexican workers? It is certainly not me. I was simply asking about your personal and collective experience with the Classic Players versus what I've read on other forums. Is it so wrong to question the quality of a new line of products? They certainly have the potential to be "as good as" or better than American products, but there are reasons they cost $700 less.

Ironically, I went to a local music store just last night to try a CP HH out for myself. Guess what? The neck pickup blender pot was not working properly. I notified one of the employees so their tech could take care of it or send it back to Fender. I also played regular CP Jag and a Jazzy. The JM seemed to be just fine, but the Jag had a loose bridge that wobbled any time the trem was used. Simple fix, but a detail that might have been addressed if it were an instrument of a higher price point. IMO, for that price they should have a "Corona" level of quality and care coming from the factory.

I detect some serious sensitivity to MIM Fender products here. While MIM products are generally fine products, it is foolish to believe that all Ensenada-made products and Corona-made products should be held to the same standard and quality. It has little to do with where it is made or who made it. It has everything to do with the components from which they are made, the systems that dictate how they are made, and the quality control throughout the process. Fender needs a reason to charge more for American-made products. Those reasons are better parts and improved attention to detail. MIM products are what they are. Cheaper versions of US-made products. Cost savings are built into the product and the process.

And the "coveted instruments from the 50s and 60s" argument is lame. They suffered terrible QC issues, too. More so than today. Any vintage collector will tell you not every Fender made in the so-called Golden Age of guitars is worthy of the adulation bestowed upon it because of its age. They made a lot of crap then, too. Machining and tolerances couldn't be maintained as tightly as today's equipment and technology. Even then, they were looking for cheap ways to make guitars. Their goal was to undercut Gibson's higher prices. Oh, and CBS-era Fender? Not exactly Fender's strongest effort, but it wasn't because of "unskilled" workers. Many of the same workers who built the hallowed classics churned out guitars with lower quality pots, smaller blocks, three-bold necks, SEVEN-piece bodies, etc. Along with every other industry in the 70's, Fender looked at the product and the system and figured out where they could cut costs.

So don't make this about the nationality, geography, or skill level of the people making these instruments. They've got production goals and manufacturing standards set for them by Fender. It is economies of scale. It is Fender applying a price to an acceptable level of quality as dictated by the free market. Feel free to remove your own head from your arse, refrain from assuming you're smarter than everyone, and educate yourself on the basics of business and economics.

Geez...

dude.

kids/dudes are paying 700 dollars for a guitar that doesn't fucking work right. i don't give a fuck if its from mexico, if i am plunking down 700 dollars the thing had better work. you can buy a whole used car for 700 dollars and have it work fine for years and years. why not a guitar?

don't go pulling this don't expect the same quality from mexico, the thing doesn't even fucking work right. you tested one out your self.

this is why i have 5 fenders and like 15 squiers

for 150 bucks you get a guitar that fucking works. at least it works better than a 700 dollar fender

by the way im not really for or against mexican made anything.
i have guitars made in mexico, usa, japan, china, korea, they all work fine. only one of them cost 700 dollars. most were around 200 or under that i modded.
so im not even talking about that.
what im pissed off about is that EXPENSIVE guitars are being sent out to shops THAT DONT WORK

i hear it about these new mexican jags all the time. people are getting ripped off because the thing has like 8 knobs/switches/rollers on it, kids don't know what the fuck to do with them and are taking them home for 700 bucks. kids are getting these things as christmas presents n shit. dad doesn't know the fucking difference between a rythem circuit and a kill switch. they are just going to take it home and its fucking broked n shit.


700 dollars broked


this is the kinda shit you would expect on a used squier bullet with stickers all over and chunks taken out of it with a screw driver, not a 700 dollar guitar.
to me there shouldn't be a difference in quality between a 700 dollar guitar and a 1600 dollar guitar, especially since the fucking 1600 model only cost 1200 like 5 years ago. did they put 400 dollars worth of extra awesomeness into it in the last 4 years? no. did they raise the salary of the old bitch that winds the pickups at the american factory 45% to justify the increase in price of the AV model? no. its all bullshit.

do they even make the fucking thing in cool colors anymore? white black red and sunburst DO NOT COUNT.

you know what colors they make affinitty squiers in ? yep white black red and sunburst.


FENDER'S $700 fucking jaguar comes in the same color choices as a 100 dollar squier.

FUCKING BRILLIANT.



*ends rant for now*