ShortScale.org

I bought both for £63 shipped. They'll take a while to turn up but I'm in no hurry. I'll demo them and keep them if I want and flip them if I don't.

I think it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to criticise people for cloning pedals. I doubt he will be affected, TheGearPage is full of people who stick their fingers in their ears when it is suggested to them that all the Mojo they hear in expensive tubescreamers is all in their heads or can be bought cheaper. He will be just fine, people will always want the definitive article, and he has always sold at a fair price.

aphasiac wrote:
and the built in gate that kills sustain is annoying,

did we not already go through this? it doesn't have a gate.

But but...Behringer reissue pedals that Boss don't make anymore! They're doing a service for the guitar world.

Example; a pedal like the Boss Dimension C analogy chorus goes on ebay for £100-£150. Behringer go and drop a bomb by releasing their CC300 clone that contains identical components for £18. Suddenly *normal* people have access to that peal again. Ditto Boss DF-2 feedbacker and FZ-2. Behringer are doing a service, and I for one will keep on supoorting them.

aphasiac wrote:But but...Behringer reissue pedals that Boss don't make anymore! They're doing a service for the guitar world.

Example; a pedal like the Boss Dimension C analogy chorus goes on ebay for £100-£150. Behringer go and drop a bomb by releasing their CC300 clone that contains identical components for £18. Suddenly *normal* people have access to that peal again. Ditto Boss DF-2 feedbacker and FZ-2. Behringer are doing a service, and I for one will keep on supoorting them.

They also shamelessly rip off stuff that is still in production with variable results. I like Behringer, but to claim they are Saintly reissuers of Deleted Pedals is just bollocks.

Order dispatched already. Blimey, that's 26 minutes atfer I ordered.

hmm..

Well anyway getting back on topic, forgot about these pedals but now I'm reminded, I quite want the Cool Cat Fuzz. Little big Muff ain't doing it for me and the You Dirty RAT is good but just isn't fuzzy enough..

Mike wrote:Order dispatched already. Blimey, that's 26 minutes atfer I ordered.

Bloody hell; where'd you order it from?

Your Mum.

Mike wrote:Your Mum.

PM address as I also want to order now.

Off to that shop we were in on Saturday to pick them up now. Anything while I'm there?

benecol wrote:Off to that shop we were in on Saturday to pick them up now. Anything while I'm there?

Ask them about Part Ex on the Vintage/Modern head on behalf of Rob. He has a Fender Blues Deville combo in good nick. Just see if they'd be interested, like.

just ordered Fuzz, £33.99 off ebayz including postage.

Will have to sell Little Big Muff now, but luckily their price seems to have shot up to £45 everywhere so should get a decent price on it..

Mike wrote:

benecol wrote:Off to that shop we were in on Saturday to pick them up now. Anything while I'm there?

Ask them about Part Ex on the Vintage/Modern head on behalf of Rob. He has a Fender Blues Deville combo in good nick. Just see if they'd be interested, like.

Roger that.

benecol wrote: I was very impressed when I met James and we chatted about pedals that he chose not to buy Behringer from an ethical point of view because of their copying

I still think this to an extent. It's certainly a massive grey area. There are some quite clear cases where I think it's ok, such as the Boss Dimension pedal aphasiac mentioned. They're far too rare to be bought easily, and the price shows it. If Boss were to have reissued them before Behringer copied it I would think that it was more out of line. Depending on how original the design was that can still be a bit dubious.

With things like the Tim and the Klon I find it to be more disagreeable. They're seen as fairly original (as these things go) designs and the price hikes are usually to do with the mojo collectors. I do feel bad for Paul Cochrane and the other guy, even though they are making a lot of money and might not even be hit that hard by it. Another area where I'm ok with it, however, is the types who take a tubescreamer and change a few values then claim it's original. Those guys can be copied endlessly as far as I'm concerned.

I guess my main criteria for it is how original the design is before it's been copied, if the pedal is still available (although the reasons for it not being available might come into it. Suppose Aen were unable to make any more TGDs for reasons beyond his control and a company knocked out a $40 copy, I'd not be happy about it or willing to buy one) and to a small extent the size of the company.

FWIW The Timmy is a tweaked Tubescreamer with added Bass and Treble cut controls, and asymmetrical clipping (like the SD-1) which can be switched in and out using DIP switches.

This highlights the main problem I have with this the ethics of it. Wiithout regularly reading through DIY forums or studying schematics, it's near impossible to know what is what.

It's incredibly hard to do anything truly original these days, and also bear in mind you can't patent a circuit, or schematic, only a PCB layout.

I could build an 808 clone on breadboard and sell thousands on ebay and never get into trouble.

I have no interest in that though, I don't build pedals to make money. I build them to order, I have never built for ebay and I doubt I will unless it all dries up once I've saturated your boards and I fancy keeping my hand in. For me it's more about making something for someone to use to rock. I find it hard to imagine it as a business, it's a properly fucked-up market. Aen has had a few of his pedals reversed on FreeStompBoxes.org - unfortunately it goes with the territory.

I thought he was still low key enough that noone had got one/bothered yet.

The way I see behringer copying other pedals, mainly boss ehx and digitech. Is its a bit like music or video downloads to certain extent. most of the people downloading album after album for free. And never buying. are normally the type of person that never pays for music anyway. so if they couldnt get it for free they wouldnt anyway.
Same with the pedals if you can get a copy cheaper the people that fill there boards just with behringer probably wouldn't of bought the original pedals had the behringer had not existed. obviously there is crossover. like me I download some music and but buy some too. and same with pedals I am a fan of behringer, but no one can say I haven't bought pedals from other company's too. there is also the cases of people who download an album and if they really like it they go and buy the original, people also try out a behringer pedal and then decide they like it so much they want the proper real version it is copying.
So in short I don't think the likes of behringer or danelctro are hurting any pedal makers. they are only really copying the bigger boys anyway. and I don't think the people who buy them would be buying the OG's anyway.