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jcyphe wrote:Yeah it's amazing how people go on and on about Fender as a company when you really look at it they built almost everything that is truly amazing from that company from 1948-1960. In twelve years they built almost all their key products. Most everything after that is a novelty, a retread, or something Fender fanatics like.

Mustang, Jaguar, Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass are all 60s creations and the Fenders I love the most.

I also think the Thinline and Custom/Deluxe Telecasters are superb.

Mike wrote: Mustang, Jaguar, Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass are all 60s creations and the Fenders I love the most.

I also think the Thinline and Custom/Deluxe Telecasters are superb.

This.

It's funny... my other favorite Fender's are all actually Squiers. I think that may be where all the creativity ended up.

I think it was the "Make as much money as we can" attitude that made their Guitars diverse. That made fender release the EXII to Cash in on the Twelve string phase. They were late and brought out the stock and remade it. That was an ingenious thing. Now we just have "Let's make what fender is known for and that's it" and Fender wanting to be considered High class and not the "Working Man's" guitar.

I replaced the crumbling buttons on the Klusons that came with my Duo-Sonic.I think I will put the crumbles on Ebay:

"Rare 1956 Pre CBS Fender Kluson Deluxe Tuner Button Dust!"

DuoSonicBoy wrote:Have played pre-CBS - they're just guitars. There's no magical reason they're any better than a modern equivalent - in fact, most American Fenders these days are the same or better quality, and certainly more consistent. I can give you 5-10 reasons a 50s Dano is better than a new one, but I can't think of a single reason a vintage strat would be better than new. The best I've played have been Japanese, actually.

What are the 5-10 reasons a 50s dano is better than a new one?

sonicmansuperb wrote:Maybe it's because I also go to OSG. They were the second forum I visited,(first was JS.com) And they seem to agree on CBS being the worst time in Fender's history. I assumed that opinion was the same here. By the way, I love the maverick. I think they should re-issue it.

i own 1 pre-CBS fender (actually 2 if you count the duo-sonic i'm putting together) and let me see... 5 CBS fenders and the build quality on them all is exactly the same- excellent.

my favourite guitar is my coronado, which would usually be classed as a CBS 'failure', and it's fucking beautiful. so there.

dezb1 wrote:

DuoSonicBoy wrote:Have played pre-CBS - they're just guitars. There's no magical reason they're any better than a modern equivalent - in fact, most American Fenders these days are the same or better quality, and certainly more consistent. I can give you 5-10 reasons a 50s Dano is better than a new one, but I can't think of a single reason a vintage strat would be better than new. The best I've played have been Japanese, actually.

What are the 5-10 reasons a 50s dano is better than a new one?

1. Bridge is stainless, rather than chrome-plated, steel = doesn't collapse or warp with heavy strings
2. Kluson tuners = don't catch and slip like the Korean ones
3. side tape is lacquered over when finished = tape doesn't bubble and lift in the corners
4. Better electronics = CTS pots, Pyramid caps, and a Switchcraft
5. Higher output = stronger magnet + a thinner tube makes more volume and clarity
6. Rosewood parts are Brazilian instead of Indian = denser, more durable, and brighter sounding

The rest is preference on my part: thinner finish, smaller headstock, slimmer neck. AND MOJO!!!

stewart wrote:
my favourite guitar is my coronado, which would usually be classed as a CBS 'failure', and it's fucking beautiful. so there.

Pics?

dezb1 wrote:

stewart wrote: my favourite guitar is my coronado, which would usually be classed as a CBS 'failure', and it's fucking beautiful. so there.

Pics?

http://www.shortscale.org/forum/viewtop ... t=coronado
This thread.

dezb1 wrote:

stewart wrote:
my favourite guitar is my coronado, which would usually be classed as a CBS 'failure', and it's fucking beautiful. so there.

Pics?

edit: he beat me to it ^

Mike wrote:

jcyphe wrote:Yeah it's amazing how people go on and on about Fender as a company when you really look at it they built almost everything that is truly amazing from that company from 1948-1960. In twelve years they built almost all their key products. Most everything after that is a novelty, a retread, or something Fender fanatics like.

Mustang, Jaguar, Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass are all 60s creations and the Fenders I love the most.

I also think the Thinline and Custom/Deluxe Telecasters are superb.

Jazzmaster(1958) is not and neither is the Jazz Bass(1960). They fall in the twelve year golden age time. And while you might like those other models they don't compare to the cultural impact of the others. You could also argue the Mustang, Jaguar, and Tele Deluxes are all refinements of models from 1948-1960. With probably the Mustang being the more original of the 3 eventhough it was proceeded by Fender student guitars it was a big step up.

jcyphe wrote:

Mike wrote:

jcyphe wrote:Yeah it's amazing how people go on and on about Fender as a company when you really look at it they built almost everything that is truly amazing from that company from 1948-1960. In twelve years they built almost all their key products. Most everything after that is a novelty, a retread, or something Fender fanatics like.

Mustang, Jaguar, Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass are all 60s creations and the Fenders I love the most.

I also think the Thinline and Custom/Deluxe Telecasters are superb.

Jazzmaster(1958) is not and neither is the Jazz Bass(1960). They fall in the twelve year golden age time. And while you might like those other models they don't compare to the cultural impact of the others. You could also argue the Mustang, Jaguar, and Tele Deluxes are all refinements of models from 1948-1960. With probably the Mustang being the more original of the 3 eventhough it was proceeded by Fender student guitars it was a big step up.

1960 is 60s where I'm from. Fair dos about the Jazzmaster. That's my least favourite of all the 4 I mentioned.

The Mustang had it's own trem, and while the Jaguar shares a lot with the Jazzmaster, it plays and sounds so different I think it justifies itself as it's own identity.

Ditto the Tele Deluxe, it has different pickups, electronics, body and a neck to a Telecaster, the neck is fat and clubby like a 70s Strat, and the body is larger and contoured.

sonicmansuperb wrote:When the Bass V didn't work they gave use the Fender Arrow Swinger.

Fixt

stewart wrote:

dezb1 wrote:

stewart wrote:
my favourite guitar is my coronado, which would usually be classed as a CBS 'failure', and it's fucking beautiful. so there.

Pics?

► Show Spoiler

edit: he beat me to it ^

Very nice, like the silvertone as well, what are the other two?

Mike wrote:
1960 is 60s where I'm from. Fair dos about the Jazzmaster. That's my least favourite of all the 4 I mentioned.

Yes but I stated the period of 1948-1960, not that Fender did nothing in the sixties. I stated that the first 12 years included most of their products that were undeniably iconic and innovative.

Mike wrote: The Mustang had it's own trem, and while the Jaguar shares a lot with the Jazzmaster, it plays and sounds so different I think it justifies itself as it's own identity.

Ditto the Tele Deluxe, it has different pickups, electronics, body and a neck to a Telecaster, the neck is fat and clubby like a 70s Strat, and the body is larger and contoured.

That's why I listed the Mustang as probably the most original in that it had predeccesors as a lower priced model(student model) but it was a step forward from the Duo-Sonic and became it's own thing. Yes there are sound differences from the Jazzmaster and Jaguar but people are tripping if they don't think the Jaguar is a direct refinement/re-thinking of The Jazzmaster design.

The Tele Deluxe has it's own sound but it's nothing radical or innovative. The difference goes down to pickups, electronics, and mixture of features the Fender comapny had already proven to be succesful.

If you look at the Telecaster it was a radical guitar and totally changed the way people thought about a guitar. When it was introduced it was reviled by the other guitar makers as something that was ugly and lacking any skill to build. For the Stratocaster it was another huge leap in design and form and totally and radically different from a Tele. The Jazzmaster was also way different from the Stratocaster in design even if the result was not as iconic or practical.

For me I'm not as concerned with the fact there hasn't been a genesis of completely new designs in the company since 1960 or 1963 or whatever you want to use as the cutoff date, they've still done things with those designs that has kept me interested since. For example the Classic Player Jaguar I bought which was released last year, is far more attractive to me as a sloppy rhythm player than an original, CIJ reissue or AVRI model.

dezb1 wrote:

stewart wrote:

dezb1 wrote: Pics?

► Show Spoiler

edit: he beat me to it ^

Very nice, like the silvertone as well, what are the other two?

the red one's a framus strato deluxe and the other's a hagstrom II. i just sold the silvertone last week.

Mike wrote:For me I'm not as concerned with the fact there hasn't been a genesis of completely new designs in the company since 1960 or 1963 or whatever you want to use as the cutoff date, they've still done things with those designs that has kept me interested since. For example the Classic Player Jaguar I bought which was released last year, is far more attractive to me as a sloppy rhythm player than an original, CIJ reissue or AVRI model.

That's fair and I'm not saying people should abandon Fender if they like their proven designs. I am just pointing out that the bulk of their influential ideas and designs have a very specific period of creation. That's not true of only Fender but the electric guitar industry in general.

That's completely true, it's almost a reflection of design culture in general, the 70s was gaudy abomination and the 80s was just "No". A lot of stuff got their mojo back in the 90s and beyond, but the guitar industry is in firm retread.

EVERYTHING is in retread. Maybe it's just lame midwest fashion, but if it weren't for all the laptops and cellphones I would think it was still 1990. You have all the old folks who just haven't gotten new clothes since then, and all the kids resurrecting the skinny jean and dayglo thing. I even saw acid-wash the other day!

There's nothing wrong with old designs, provided they still work. To Fender's credit, they're 50s designs have proven versatile enough to still be viable 60 years later. Most of that is creating a design which is comfortable and has a decent range of sounds.

Let's be honest - beyond aesthetics, what could be changed in a guitar's design that would add utility? My mind goes to alternate materials like graphite and carbon fiber, but I'll admit they don't respond the same as wood.