ShortScale.org

Hmmm, something to think about then. I'll ask him if he's sold it yet.

endsjustifymeans wrote:Shell Pink, obviously.

win.

Them Vistas are nice but i dont think they are worth their ebay prices, especially considering the model is still in production and how good the chinese model is for so much less.

Ok, here's my summary of the Vista series after spending a day with one.

They are great guitars and a fantastic value, especially if you can find one for less than $400. I wouldn't necessarily pay more than that becuase their pickups are kinda bland, but if you can find one for a decent price they are a good platform for some modifications.

Here's why the Vista is so much better than the CIC version:
-The neck is the same as a CIJ Jaguar neck, including radius. Essentially a Fender neck with with a Squier logo. The CIC has a 24" conversion neck with inferior rosewood. I consider the neck to be perhaps the most important part of a guitar, and so you're getting something that would normally be on a $600+ guitar.
-The body is full thickness alder (basswood on the solid colors), made with 2-3 pieces and proper H-H routing. The CIC might be alder, but it looks like it has a veneer so it might be made of multiple pieces. It's also thinner and feels less substantial. Also has a swimming pool route.
-The hardware is just all around better, especially the tremolo and tuners.
-The electronics (switching, pots, shielding) is higher quality.
-Cosmetics are better (finish, tortoise shell pickguard material, knobs, etc.)

Some comparison pics: Now the Japanese pickups are very bland and dull sounding, so it's kinda a moot point there.. But I replaced the neck pickup with a single coil I had and it sounds great. This pickup used to be in a CIJ Mustang I owned, and it actually sounds better in this guitar than it did in the Mustang. (Granted there are significant construction differences, but still..) I might eventually look into getting a custom pickguard and some other pickups, but for now I'm happy with it.


I urge you all to be on the lookout for Vistas, they really do live up to the hype and can easily be modded into something just as worthy as your main guitars.

3 Offsets, 3 Fender archetypes (strat, tele, JM)

Nice comparison and true, you missed something though- the CIC sounds better and arguably plays just as well depending on personal taste. To me it aesthetically looks better as well with the tremolo set further back.
You are right from a construction point of view, the Vista neck is easily better quality but the argument over grades of rosewood and alder used means nothing to a lot of guitar players, neither does a swimming pool route.
I've never had a problem with either models machine heads and both tremolos are a pain in the arse although people like Bacchus Paul have got them set up well apparently.
In view that CIJ Jaguars are overpriced (poor electronics, inferior tremolo to AV) yet its a great chassis to build on, you can say the same about the Vistas i suppose.

I've never played a CIC Jagmaster, but I think Fran is right about the aesthetics, they definitely look a bit nicer with the trem further black.. BUT.. the Tort on the Sunburst one is so ugly I could cut my own tongue out and stamp on it while gurgling blood all over the pavement. It is so phoned in laserprinted SHITE.

The black and white one is nice though, would be even nicer with a black scratcher.

Mike wrote: The black and white one is nice though, would be even nicer with a black scratcher.

I have a black on black CIC project going on, it does look super sexy.

Fran wrote:

Mike wrote: The black and white one is nice though, would be even nicer with a black scratcher.

I have a black on black CIC project going on, it does look super sexy.

Much better than that ugly piece of shit above. What were they thinking? The same shitty tort is the reason I bough the Classic Vibe P Bass rather than the Jazz Bass. They have one in my local music shop and it's fucking minging.

Seeing as it was mentioned, here is my CIC in progress.....

Fucking EMG.

ROLF

Needs floyd rose and locking nut.

It is being considered.

that black on black is fucking sexy as hell Franbo!

Fran wrote:Nice comparison and true, you missed something though- the CIC sounds better and arguably plays just as well depending on personal taste. To me it aesthetically looks better as well with the tremolo set further back.
You are right from a construction point of view, the Vista neck is easily better quality but the argument over grades of rosewood and alder used means nothing to a lot of guitar players, neither does a swimming pool route.
I've never had a problem with either models machine heads and both tremolos are a pain in the arse although people like Bacchus Paul have got them set up well apparently.
In view that CIJ Jaguars are overpriced (poor electronics, inferior tremolo to AV) yet its a great chassis to build on, you can say the same about the Vistas i suppose.

My feeling is that if you pay $250 for a Jagmaster... with a CIJ you are getting $5-600+ value guitar construction-wise. With a CIC you are getting a $250 guitar construction-wise. I don't think you're really "winning" if you end up pay $500 for a Vista series, but it is clearly evident that they can be had for less than that on occasion.

There's nothing wrong with plenty of cheaper guitars, it just feels like you are stepping up into an intermediate-level instrument with the CIJ. And really my story is nothing extraordinary, plenty of people can get good deals on instruments, especially on US craigslist where people sometimes sell USA Fenders and Gibsons for sub-$600 and whatnot.

As for the trem, well, I never got along with Strat trems that well and feel like they always have wayyy to much dive in comparison to the subtlety of an offset system. Thus I have mine set flush with the body even with full string tension. That way I don't have to deal with the balancing-act setup, nor the unusual 'feature' of having unison bends go out of tune. It would be a moot point, except that the block on the Vista is full-size and appears to made of actual steel, whereas the CIC has a smaller block and also looks to be made of coated Zinc or something.

Man, I feel kinda jipped now that two people found Jagmasters for much less than I found mine. Oh well.

Fran that black on black looks sweet! don't listen to the haters, EMGs bring the METALTONEZ.

damienblair17 wrote:Fran that black on black looks sweet! don't listen to the haters, EMGs bring the METALTONEZ.

Cheers. Im slowly but surely bringing EMGz into fashion on these forums, this time next year even Mike will have one.

Fran wrote:

damienblair17 wrote:Fran that black on black looks sweet! don't listen to the haters, EMGs bring the METALTONEZ.

Cheers. Im slowly but surely bringing EMGz into fashion on these forums, this time next year even Mike will have one.

I played a Page Hamilton signature ESP yesterday, and I don't know why but it made me think of Fran. Something about the metal appeal of it I guess. Actually quiet a nice guitar... way too expensive though.

endsjustifymeans wrote:

Fran wrote:

damienblair17 wrote:Fran that black on black looks sweet! don't listen to the haters, EMGs bring the METALTONEZ.

Cheers. Im slowly but surely bringing EMGz into fashion on these forums, this time next year even Mike will have one.

I played a Page Hamilton signature ESP yesterday, and I don't know why but it made me think of Fran. Something about the metal appeal of it I guess. Actually quiet a nice guitar... way too expensive though.

Ooo which one the cool silver/grey one or that horrible red one?