Why have guitar necks gotten narrower?

rps-10 · Post by **rps-10** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:25 pm

F spaced pickups are to match (pickup poles to strings) the spacing to Floyd Rose type trems, which are wider than a standard fender bridge.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:26 pm

JJLipton wrote:
George wrote:They need to get wider toward the body so the string spacing allows to you pick strings properly. It's ergonomics. Anyone who wants the bridge string spacing to be as narrow as the nut is having a fucking bubble bath. I'd love to see you try.
Is that why you need F space bridge pickups on fenders but not f spaced neck pickups?

Ja. Fender spacing is different to Gibson. I think there is also a difference between USA Fender (imperial mesaurements) and asian import fenders (metric) but it's not huge.

Actually I am going to start collating Dave's Anally retentive database of guitars and parts suitable for tiny mutant hands.

George · Post by **George** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:31 pm

As far as I'm concerned a lot of pickups have an outright design flaw on each guitar in that the pickups are the same width for each pickup but the string spacing is different; it would cost a lot more to have specific neck/bridge width pickups though I'm guessing. Telecasters got it right because they're designed for each respective position so the strings actually run over the pole pieces. With Strats cos I feel a lot of the time the high E isn't even over the pole piece at all and you lose some volume.

Like Dave said, string spacing changes but pickups don't - bit of a compromise, really.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:34 pm

George, that's some great anally retentive points well made there and loving the Tele observation. 100% respect for this post.

George · Post by **George** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:37 pm

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Next questions: Why are Fender incapable of properly designing new models that don't have discrepancies between bridge and neck radius (all AOM guitars) or between bridge and pickguard (Mustang Pawn). I never really realised how much of this happens with them until recently and it's starting make me lose respect for them on a design level.. it just seems so half-arsed.

More importantly: Why have guitars got less pointy since the 80's?

GreenKnee · Post by **GreenKnee** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:39 pm

Dave wrote:More importantly: Why have guitars got less pointy since the 80's?

Cause pointy guitars are too awesome for today's market!

Or Health and Safety reasons?

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:48 pm

Haha!

OPh an why has Yngwie Malmsteen gotten wider?

cur · Post by **cur** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:16 pm

GreenKnee wrote:
Dave wrote:More importantly: Why have guitars got less pointy since the 80's?
Cause pointy guitars are too awesome for today's market!

Or Health and Safety reasons?

FUCK YEAH

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:26 pm

GreenKnee wrote:
Dave wrote:More importantly: Why have guitars got less pointy since the 80's?

Health and Safety reasons?

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:13 pm

Dave wrote:Next questions: Why are Fender incapable of properly designing new models that don't have discrepancies between bridge and neck radius (all AOM guitars) or between bridge and pickguard (Mustang Pawn).

Because Fender isn't run by musicians.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:48 pm

It's kinda weird though as I can't think of any other product manufacturers that would follow such nonsense. Like if you're going with a 9.5 neck give it a 9.5 bridge goddamnit fender! You know what i want? I want a goddamn roller bridge with adjustable saddles for any radius. Someone please make one asap.

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:25 pm

The vast majority of the guitar market is targeted at beginners and novices who don't know what they're looking for, other than "that one Hendrix played." There's no incentive to improve anything.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:58 pm

rps-10 wrote:F spaced pickups are to match (pickup poles to strings) the spacing to Floyd Rose type trems, which are wider than a standard fender bridge.

I'm pretty sure that Floyd and Fender bridges have the same dimensions. Floyds were originally designed to retrofit Fender type guitars.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:45 am

It's because Hendrix is so worth mimicking that we've even replicated his use of massive hands by just making our guitar necks smaller.

In all seriousness I think it's because guitar is getting less and less important or "cool". They're gravitating away from a brave new world and more towards "musical instrument" territory, where general consensus wins (please direct me to the newest groundbreaking trumpet with modern technology that makes it better btw, and it had better be mass-produced and affordable or tbh I think I give up on the trumpet industry).

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:15 am

paul_ wrote:In all seriousness I think it's because guitar is getting less and less important or "cool".

I'm gonna sound like an old fart now, but it is widely understood I'm the oldest 24-year-old in the world:

Kids who take up guitar don't learn music. They learn chords, riffs, and scales, but not how melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre work together to form music. To a large extent, I think that's what's killing organic music - when you don't have at least an intuitive understanding of those building blocks, you simply can't make interesting music. I've jammed with some very technically accomplished players since moving to Madison, but few can make music. They might know all the theory, but they don't know what any of it should sound like.

And to be fair, the guitar playing community doesn't push eachother towards interesting music. Nailing tones or having cool gear, yes, but not real creativity. Getting back to Paul's point, the guitar has become defined by standards and consensus. And the average, standard guitar player knows shit about making music.

JJLipton · Post by **JJLipton** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:13 pm

Will wrote:
paul_ wrote:In all seriousness I think it's because guitar is getting less and less important or "cool".
I'm gonna sound like an old fart now, but it is widely understood I'm the oldest 24-year-old in the world:

Kids who take up guitar don't learn music. They learn chords, riffs, and scales, but not how melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre work together to form music. To a large extent, I think that's what's killing organic music - when you don't have at least an intuitive understanding of those building blocks, you simply can't make interesting music. I've jammed with some very technically accomplished players since moving to Madison, but few can make music. They might know all the theory, but they don't know what any of it should sound like.

And to be fair, the guitar playing community doesn't push eachother towards interesting music. Nailing tones or having cool gear, yes, but not real creativity. Getting back to Paul's point, the guitar has become defined by standards and consensus. And the average, standard guitar player knows shit about making music.

all opinion, of course. I'd say right now the trend is definitely towards technical playing. We're the same age

, and i think today's guitar players are technically better than ever before. ( shut up django dicksuckers). I attribute this to the internet and how easy techniques, practice regiments, and lessons are to access. I also think some guitar players are still making some damn good music. I've learned not to live in the past, or the future in every aspect of my life. 10 years from now we'll probably be wishing things were better like back in the good ol' days of 2010's.

rps-10 · Post by **rps-10** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:44 pm

honeyiscool wrote:
rps-10 wrote:F spaced pickups are to match (pickup poles to strings) the spacing to Floyd Rose type trems, which are wider than a standard fender bridge.
I'm pretty sure that Floyd and Fender bridges have the same dimensions. Floyds were originally designed to retrofit Fender type guitars.

With additional work yeah. Not a straight retrofit by any means. The spacing of the saddles and strings over a locking floyd tyep trem is a few mm wider than a standard Strat trem. One of the reasons Kramer used to put an angled bucker in the bridge postion wasn't for rad looks, it was to get an even pickup off the strings vibrating above. In general I think its the nut width that has somethign to do with it as well. Just the "F" bit came popular in the late 80's due to the locking trems
You see the odd Gibson hardtail with F spaced pickups too.

Larry DiMarzio wrote:
F-spacing refers to the wider of the two spacings. For proper string alignment and balanced output, F-spaced humbuckers should be used in the bridge position on all guitars with string spacing at the bridge of 2.1" (53 mm) or greater. On these guitars, if the nut width is 1-11/16â€� (43 mm) or greater, F-spaced pickups can be used in the neck position as well.

George · Post by **George** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:54 pm

JJLipton wrote:i think today's guitar players are technically better than ever before. ( shut up django dicksuckers)

This made me laugh my socks off. The current generation of "technical guitarists" might as well be born without ears. No musical ability at all or ear for a song, just technique for the sake of it (so I suppose your statement is probably right). I've not seen anything approaching Django's (or any other great guitarist's) innovation, feel, sense of melody or fun in the multitude of youtube videos where every teenager thinks they're a fucking god because they know what a mode is and remembered a few fast licks.

The whole culture is woefully boring for everyone else.