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For the record, the best bass sound I have ever heard was an old AIMS tube pa amplifier then through some old fender cab. Fucking CREAMY. I wanted it so bad but didn't have the money.

http://www.thesoundodyssey.com/product.php?pid=291

I've personally enjoyed every Ashdown bass amp I've used; from the hugest stack to the smallest 1x10 combo. They seem to take pedals GREAT and the EQs are brill.

Billy3000 wrote:Also, like Slaon said, get a Sansamp DI if you're playing venues where you'll be running DI. They also sound awesome, and I've had friends with cheap SS amps that they run the sansamp through the Power amp in and they get a sound pretty damn close to my actual Ampeg SVT! You might find that this option will be good enough to where you don't even feel the need to buy a more expensive amp.

I got one for recording. Works great for guitar or bass. I really like to have it front of my interface, phantom powered, just to beef up the input a bit before it enters the interface. Does excellent in that role.

Get the Para Driver instead of the Bass Driver. It does everything the BD does but adds a mids control.

I've always trusted Trace Elliot to be really loud and clean but fairly priced. They aren't my favourite bass amp, but I think there a really solid investment. The 7210 is bloody loud, the bassist in my old band used to play through one at rehearsals and he used to be really loud, loud enough to play with a drummer and a 50watt and a 4x12 at about half volume. I like the Peavey suggestion as well, good value. At least here anyway, not sure what the prices are like over the pond..

Peavey is pretty cheap over here too...even those 300 watt combos like Kim Deal used up through Doolittle can be had all day for under $250.

Honeyiscool, thanks for the Para Driver suggestion, I'll look into that.

Nick wrote:Also should I take your last comment to mean that new Acoustic stuff sounds like the old stuff? Considering Guitar Center is the only dealer and the music store least likely to have a vintage acoustic amp kicking around, I won't be able to try them side by side

Newer Acoustic stuff seems to be pretty reliable, possibly even with more tonal options (my 140 only has high/low EQ) but I've only ever used 'em briefly. Check local stores and junk/antique/pawn shops for hidden gems. I picked up my first guitar amp from an antique store.

honeyiscool wrote:

Billy3000 wrote:Also, like Slaon said, get a Sansamp DI if you're playing venues where you'll be running DI. They also sound awesome, and I've had friends with cheap SS amps that they run the sansamp through the Power amp in and they get a sound pretty damn close to my actual Ampeg SVT! You might find that this option will be good enough to where you don't even feel the need to buy a more expensive amp.

I got one for recording. Works great for guitar or bass. I really like to have it front of my interface, phantom powered, just to beef up the input a bit before it enters the interface. Does excellent in that role.

Get the Para Driver instead of the Bass Driver. It does everything the BD does but adds a mids control.

I hadn't heard of the Para Driver til just now. Sounds pretty cool, although I've never noticed a problem with the Bass Driver lacking in the midrange. Having a mid control that you can adjust is always good for bass though.

Oh, for pure bass use, BDDI is fine, but I think the Para Driver is more versatile for guitar use. It's actually a half decent standalone guitar preamp, although I think the overdrive is a bit too smooth and I prefer to run it clean with a separate overdrive pedal. Generally, I prefer the Tech 21 Oxford for both guitar and bass to the Para Driver, I'll say. It's pretty much the best pedal ever but it doesn't completely replace a Para Driver either.

You could use a Sovtek Mig100 for bass, they push a ton of low end and are loud as hell. In fact, any number of tube guitar heads would work for bass as long as you had the right bass cabinet. Tube amps always sound twice as loud as the solid state counterparts anyways.

I am feeling increasingly naive for making this thread.

I have two opposing outlooks on this now and I don't know which is true.

1.Bass is a lot like guitar, some amps have a warmth, grit, or sparkle or whatever. An Acoustic, Sunn, Mesa, Ampeg, Peavey, Trace Elliot, etc are all going to sound differently. I will notice a discernible difference between the sound of a 150lb vintage bass amp and a new 30lb lightweight. The classic sounds I hear on my favorite albums are only attainable by having the same gear or similar. It is therefore a faux pass to plug a high end bass into a cheap new solidstate lightweight amp, because the sound JUST WON'T BE THE SAME.

2.Bass is nothing like guitar. Tubes don't make all the difference like they do on guitar and all you need for a head is volume and a good EQ. The rest is just the speakers and how much air they push. You can record ANY BASS SOUND through a good enough D.I. box. The only reason to have an big old bass amp is for looks, and nowadays the only people who cart around those monsters are stadium bands who have roadies, and stubborn hipster gear snobs who insist on using their Ampeg 8x10 stacks in coffee shops.


Now I know nobody came out and said either of these things, but I'm starting to feel from this discussion that the truth is most of 2 with a little of 1 mixed in, which is opposite from what I'd like to believe.



While we're on this topic, does anyone know what amp Fred Smith of Television or Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads used? Those are some of my favorite clean bass sounds.....again, I'm asking myself if there's anything special about the tone or if it's just the EQ and where it is in the mix that I like so much.

Trace Elliot and Sunn are my preference. I currently have a beta bass and a hartke ha2500, i used to have a trace elliot boxer 65. the beta bass is now my primary amp. Its very warm and can get near ampeg tones while having its own sound. the hartke, in my opinion, is kind of soulless. its got a ten band eq and many other adjustments, but it doesn't really have character like the sun does. its kind of hollow

Nick wrote:I am feeling increasingly naive for making this thread.

I have two opposing outlooks on this now and I don't know which is true.

1.Bass is a lot like guitar, some amps have a warmth, grit, or sparkle or whatever. An Acoustic, Sunn, Mesa, Ampeg, Peavey, Trace Elliot, etc are all going to sound differently. I will notice a discernible difference between the sound of a 150lb vintage bass amp and a new 30lb lightweight. The classic sounds I hear on my favorite albums are only attainable by having the same gear or similar. It is therefore a faux pass to plug a high end bass into a cheap new solidstate lightweight amp, because the sound JUST WON'T BE THE SAME.

2.Bass is nothing like guitar. Tubes don't make all the difference like they do on guitar and all you need for a head is volume and a good EQ. The rest is just the speakers and how much air they push. You can record ANY BASS SOUND through a good enough D.I. box. The only reason to have an big old bass amp is for looks, and nowadays the only people who cart around those monsters are stadium bands who have roadies, and stubborn hipster gear snobs who insist on using their Ampeg 8x10 stacks in coffee shops.


Now I know nobody came out and said either of these things, but I'm starting to feel from this discussion that the truth is most of 2 with a little of 1 mixed in, which is opposite from what I'd like to believe.



While we're on this topic, does anyone know what amp Fred Smith of Television or Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads used? Those are some of my favorite clean bass sounds.....again, I'm asking myself if there's anything special about the tone or if it's just the EQ and where it is in the mix that I like so much.

Your pretty much right.

NEW BASS TECH
But those new 5lb bass amps use newer amp technology like class d, so they push a ton of power for a ton of clean headroom. Bass NEEDS headroom (low frequencies are larger waves and take more power to produce).

BASS SPEAKERS
10" speakers are common since 2 of them can fit in about the same space as a 15" and they push more air (2x10=20) and since they are smaller, respond better to mid/highs for a defined, punchy sound.

---about speakers and blowing them up
the maximum range that the cone of a speaker can move in/out is called XMAX - pushing low freqs needs a lot more xmax than what guitar speakers can handle. PA speakers can be used for bass and vice versa. BUT a lot of times, a PA speaker will include a horn/tweeter that your bass will destroy/pop fuse/pop breaker/pop lightbulb (used as fuse) when you under power the speaker. under powering is the #1 cause of speaker damage and why so many people blow their shit up. Why? because when you push your power amp/s into distortion by cranking everything, the speakers literally rip themselves apart trying to recreate the sound of that distortion at such high volume. it's like driving your car with the gas pedal screwed to the floorboard.

You need more power than your ever gonna use so that the signal is clean (HEADROOM). I generally try to keep at least 2x the wattage my speakers are rated at. it's good to keep slightly under PEAK wattage, hitting that or above will also kill speakers.

with that said, i suggest a high wattage very clean bass head, at least a 4x10, and then use the sansamp if you want grit/dist/overdrive. Sansamp has become pretty much standard for bass tones, sounds great live through a PA, sounds great mixed with a clean DI for recording.



Big amps still serve a purpose - they sound and look fucking awesome. If the PA is big enough to push all your lows and they have monitors that can push lows (a 15 is ok) then you can show up just with your bass and the sansamp and help the rest of the band setup their gear. if your dooming shit, bring a few 8x10s or whatever.

I think that #2 is mostly true in both guitar and bass. It amazes me that there are people who carry around 70 pound amps to bar gigs, when I have a Tech 21 Oxford and a Magnum 44 that gets a crackling lead tone.

I think bassists are more likely to embrace new technologies than guitarists, who are happy to be stuck in the 60s. It's probably because vintage inefficiency comes at a pretty hefty cost, literally, for bass. Anyway, part of the industry has been really going towards light and portable yet still good, and you just don't really see that movement in guitar, other than Tech 21 and a couple of other companies.

I know it's a cliché but tone is in the hands of the user. If you can't get a good tone out of a lightweight solid state setup, it's because you don't believe that you can, so you don't try hard enough. And that bias might be real enough to keep you from achieving a good tone on anything but a huge bulky tube amp, and that's good for you, stick to what you like, but that doesn't make mean viewpoint #1 has any real truth to it for someone who always viewed tube amps with a bit of suspicion.

honeyiscool wrote: I know it's a cliché but tone is in the hands of the user. If you can't get a good tone out of a lightweight solid state setup, it's because you don't believe that you can, so you don't try hard enough. And that bias might be real enough to keep you from achieving a good tone on anything but a huge bulky tube amp, and that's good for you, stick to what you like, but that doesn't make mean viewpoint #1 has any real truth to it for someone who always viewed tube amps with a bit of suspicion.

This makes perfect sense.

I hate to admit it but I feel I have that bias. Not to say I'm afraid of rocking out to full capacity on a small solid state amp, but I do agree that I'm afraid to hone my tone *snrk* if I don't think the amp is as good as another.

You're talking to someone who used to lug a 100lb 70's Yamaha Combo Organ to shows in addition to my Fender Twin and two guitars.

Nothing like hauling many pieces of heavy gear to help you start considering modern, lighter options to achieve your sound... or reevaluate what you want for a sound (or reevaluate what you think others actually notice... listeners don't really notice the minute details we fuss over).
I lug in a VI style bass, a guitar, a mandolin, a Twin Reverb, and occasionally have to bring my own bass amp (I use the house unit or another band's bass amp if possible)... I'd also carry a 4-string, but the VI works well enough in standard bass roles that it's not worth the extra lugging and instrument swapping. If I can lighten the load at all it's a good thing, even if tone suffers a little bit... the audience isn't going to notice anyway.

The lightweight bass amps have really come a long way as far as being able to mimic the tone of a 75 lb all tube bass head. The orange terror bass gets the same amount of low end and gritty drive that I get from my Ampeg SVT. Also the new Ampeg portaflex heads do a really good job of mimicking the SVT amps. I played the portaflex 500 through a 610 at guitar center and it sounded great, it also does a better job of being a bit more versatile than the orange. The orange is great for rock, but I wouldn't recommend it for too much else, it's a bit too gritty for styles of music that call for a nice clean bass tone. The ampeg PF-500 does a really good job of maintaining the versatility of an SVT, so it's great for all styles. It's also only $399 new.

Hadn't seen the Portaflex 500; been watching a couple demos, and I think I could probably dial in what I want from it... I like that it has XLR out for DI pre or post pre-amp. Getting amp tone through the house DI is a killer option. Plus, with the AUX in and Power Amp in, I can use this easily with, for example, Amplitube for iPhone/iPad or bi-amp along with my Peavey T-Max's Crossover.


Might have to look into it a little more seriously, for $400! The potential flexibility here has really piqued my interest. Pair this with the Portaflex 210HE, and my current Carvin 115... think I'd be singin'.

The new Acoustic amps are nothing like the old ones. At least based on owning some of the old ones, but only playing the new ones in the store. Though Acoustic USA did reissue the 360 and 360/1 if you have four grand to cough up.

I think it really depends what your needs are. Are tubes essential? Well no, and yes. If you get my drift. It all depends what kind of music and venues you play. I mostly play coffee houses where I need no PA support, or clubs where I can DI from the amp or put a mic in front of it. I prefer using a mic, because then you actually hear the amp and cab. I play a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0. It's a single 10" speaker and a 300 watt head, which only puts 175 watts into the cab at 8 ohms. We're a band with a full drum kit, vocals, electric guitar, vibraphone/percussion, and a baritone sax. Is it enough? Yes. Do I want another cab to get 4 ohms and 300 watts? YES. Because even though I can hear myself, and I have presence in the songs. Bass is all about filling up the sound, and surrounding the music. So the more headroom the better.

Ok I'm rambling. Everything Sloan said has been right on. I'll just keep adding. Old Sunn amps are awesome. 60 watts is a fair amount for bass amp if it has tubes, but it really depends what kind of tom foolery your guitarists are up to. It also depends how efficient your cab is. There seems to be a lot more "science" to good bass tone than guitar tone. The solid state Sunn amps are a good buy as well. I've even played through some of their guitar heads and it works, but the tone shaping leaves a little to be desired. If you can find an Ampeg V4B, those are great "mid sized" tube heads. Peavey amps are a great buy, especially if you can find a Festival Series Roadmaster. If you want to get technical it's a guitar head, but a 200 watt tube guitar head with 6550s. HUGE. Best head I've ever owned.

For me a SS amp with a tube preamp does not compare to a full tube amp at all. The magic of tubes for me is in the power section, the sag and compression. I don't use a lot of gain in my sound, so the tube pre doesn't do a lot for me.

Good luck, it's all crap next to a B-15 anyway.