BobArsecake wrote:If you're not concerned with resale then I don't see a problem with modding it how you want it, depending on how confident/experienced you are with routing could be a deciding factor though. How much did you get the body for, if you don't mind my asking? Don't think it'd be my choice of pickups but I love the rest of the concept. Keep us updated with progress!
Regarding the pickups, and please pardon me if you already have experience with them, the "Super Distortion" is a misleading name for the pickup in IMO. They are fantastic clean pickups and handle effects well... they also coil split very well for convincing Fendery single coil tone. I have the full size version of the SD in two of my four Strats. Both have a coil split toggle... I'll be curious to hear the single coil sized version. As far as the Fast Track pickup for the neck, I've never tried one so I don't know but I they supposedly pair well with the SD. I play through a Twin and use a rather lengthy effect chain so wanted powerful pickups... we'll see how it turns out.
I've done some routing before and feel pretty good about it. I installed a third humbucker on a newer Ibanez Artist and routed the bridge pickup area on one of my MJT Strat bodies. Both came out perfectly... I use the hand adapter on the dremel and go SLOW! I feel up to the job and am planning to rout as little as possible to run the wires from the toggle. One little circle on the lower horn and a channel from there to the control plate.
The body ran me $250 bucks which isn't cheap, but seemed like an OK deal. I was considering one that was only $100 (stripped and stained) but then I had to wonder about HOW it was stripped and what it was stained with. I was thinking I could have it shot in nitro in the color of my choice by MJT but in the end it, it would have cost WAY more than $250. I will be sure to get some pics up once parts start rolling in. Cheers.
Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:06 pm
by JamGuy
Ah... a three day weekend and parts galore have rolled in. The body has arrived and is indeed a poly finish but does have extensive checking... not visible on the photos I already posted but I've taken a few that show it better that I'll get posted. The body is in decent shape, nothing major... some dings and is a banana creme color. I used some automotive scratch doctor swirl/scratch/crap remover and it cleaned up very nicely. Despite being pretty dingy it polished up very nicely and really looks pretty nice now. The bridge arrived and I took it apart, cleaned it, and reassembled in and now it's looking quite nice as well.
I'm going to do some parts aging this afternoon... the tuners, pickups screws, neck plate, etc. As I mentioned before I use a muriatic acid "double boiler" using a small bucket and a tuppy. I'll get a pic of that up too. It works great despite being hideously toxic... I'll get some pictures up soon. Cheers and a happy long weekend!
Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:23 pm
by JamGuy
Cleaned up...
Close up of front...
Aged knobs and tuners...
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:28 am
by MMPicker
I'm not really in the "save the vintage body"camp, in this case. Truth is, the vintage body is not really worth particularly much. These aren't Stradivarii, they are a bunch of pieces of wood bolted together with pickups stuck in. That's true of all of them, but these models in particular have been deemed to have little collectibility value.
And it's not like you're wrecking it, you're actually still using it fully for it's intended purpose. You're just changing the switching scheme, to something many would say is more sensible.
In my case, the body of the guitar was already screwed with when I bought it, somebody had routed the bridge for a humbucker. But I don't see anything wrong with with routing a clean one for a toggle either. After all, the pre-64 duo-sonics all had that toggle.
It might be easier, actually, to build this up using a pre-'64 body, since it's already routed for the toggle. According to the Marcel Roy site this can be done, with some jiggling to fit a 24" scale post-'64 neck .
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:39 am
by MMPicker
Also, if one is not bothered about being "authentic looking", I might mention that I have those same original double-line Kluson Deluxe tuners on my Musicmaster II, and I put Gotoh Vintage Tuners, #GK1LC, from Warmoth, on my Jaguar. The Gotohs are much better tuners, in my opinion. Some day I will probably put a set on the Musicmaster. If they make a variant with white switch tips I might get that one.
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:47 am
by MMPicker
Dillon wrote: Looks like what you have there is a Duo Sonic II body.
..Or Musicmaster II body, they were the same. Mine is a Musicmaster II and it had the same routing (and body).
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:05 am
by MMPicker
JamGuy wrote: I feel up to the job and am planning to rout as little as possible to run the wires from the toggle. One little circle on the lower horn and a channel from there to the control plate.
I may be wrong, and i don't care to open mine up, but FWIW I don't think the tech who did mine routed from the switch to the control plate. For what it's worth. My recollection is he routed from the switch to the neck pickup slot. Actually I'm sure of it.
[edit for some reason most of these links don't work, but if you get to the parent pages you'll find the routing and wiring pictures]
The Pre-64's were wired differently though.
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:35 pm
by JamGuy
MMPicker wrote:
JamGuy wrote: I feel up to the job and am planning to rout as little as possible to run the wires from the toggle. One little circle on the lower horn and a channel from there to the control plate.
I may be wrong, and i don't care to open mine up, but FWIW I don't think the tech who did mine routed from the switch to the control plate. For what it's worth. My recollection is he routed from the switch to the neck pickup slot. Actually I'm sure of it.
Well, my plan is to remove as little wood as possible so once I get all the parts in and the p/g and c/p assembled I can figure out how to proceed... that's good to know though. The pickups each have four wires (plus the bare ground) and between running them for the coil split toggle on the control plate to and the three way on the lower horn I can picture in my mind what it would look like and have yet to sketch it out on paper.
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:42 pm
by JamGuy
MMPicker wrote:Also, if one is not bothered about being "authentic looking", I might mention that I have those same original double-line Kluson Deluxe tuners on my Musicmaster II, and I put Gotoh Vintage Tuners, #GK1LC, from Warmoth, on my Jaguar. The Gotohs are much better tuners, in my opinion. Some day I will probably put a set on the Musicmaster. If they make a variant with white switch tips I might get that one.
We'll see how they work... after spending half the day yesterday aging them I'm pretty sure I'm going to use them. I guess I am concerned about it looking equally aged... meaning I think shiny new knobs and tuners on an otherwise aged body and neck would look strange. I want the whole thing to have a vintage vibe but hotrodded... which is why I chose those pickups.
Speaking of the pickups, I'm curious to see how they sound split... the plan was to simply wire the bridge pup to split but now I'm thinking I'll wire both to split.... it can't hurt and may actually approximate the sound of the original single coils.
BTW, how would you folks characterize the original pickups (and I know they probably vary and tone is subjective) but would you say stratty, tele-like, woody, thin, fat, trebly, bassy,... etc.
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:45 pm
by JamGuy
Another question... are the regular length fender neck screws too long? I was just looking at one of my strats and noticed how muck thicker the body is in the neck pocket vs the Duo Sonic... it got me to thinking that the neck is probably no thicker so perhaps the screws would be too long?
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:33 pm
by MMPicker
JamGuy wrote: BTW, how would you folks characterize the original pickups (and I know they probably vary and tone is subjective) but would you say stratty, tele-like, woody, thin, fat, trebly, bassy,... etc.
As I said before, my neck pickup definitely evokes a strat. A good one, at that. Both to me and my fellow band member who was with me when I bought it. The output is probably weaker though. I've never played them back to back or anything.
Mine was a Musicmaster so it didn't come with a bridge pickup. I had a bridge pickup custom- wound to match the neck pickup, except hotter, which the originals weren't. Again, I haven't compared it back to back with those other guitars. So I can't really comment. My guess is it's sort of in between tele and strat in the bridge, maybe leaning more towards tele though.
You can probably hear some on youtube, if you search, I would guess.
IIRC Hendrix recorded some of his songs using a Duo or a Musicmaster, if you can find which those were you may be able to get an idea also.
Don't know anything about the screws, sorry. I think that MarcelRoy site has a complete parts list someplace, but I could be mistaken.
Edit: this is a pretty representative example, IMO
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:02 am
by JamGuy
Edit: this is a pretty representative example, IMO [/quote]
Very nice sound... a bit more more of what I'd call honk but yes, a very strat like tone... cool paint job on that one too. Definitely one of a kind! I'd imagine that just like with strat pickups, the materials and output varied between years and even individual examples. Thanks for the info.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:17 am
by JamGuy
Don't know anything about the screws, sorry. I think that MarcelRoy site has a complete parts list someplace, but I could be mistaken.
I found a list of screw dimensions/types from a '64... the neck screws measure 1 3/4 inch. Same length as the screws currently used.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:47 am
by MMPicker
JamGuy wrote: I'd imagine that just like with strat pickups, the materials and output varied between years and even individual examples.
I'd imagine so, too. FWIW, his is a '62, mine is a '65 (in the neck, with a relatively recent bridge pickup), and mine sounds like his, pretty much.
After listening just now to some of those other youtube clips I'm almost sorry I suggested that to you. I'm surprised so many people bother to post clips if they're playing with such poorly set-up guitars, or using horrible amps that make their guitars sound like an indistinguishable gob of distortion. Or playing them practically unamplified, what the heck does that prove.
But that one, at least, sounds a lot like mine.
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:53 pm
by JamGuy
Hers's a brief update...
There's been a change of plans (and parts)... last weekend when I had shortscale fever, I purchased another late 60's body and a '74 musicmaster neck which is in pristine shape. The new plan is to install GFS lipstick pickups into this guitar (as mocked up and resting on the floor). The red body is going to get paired up with the '66 neck and and get the humbucker treatment. I drilled the p/g and installed the toggle after applying an adhesive shielding/backing to it... it was easy to use.
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:07 am
by JamGuy
Well, I finished routing out the space for the toggle... while I don't think the custom shop will be making me any job offers soon, it did turn out relatively clean, and once painted, will look about as good as I'd expect it can. I still need to make a shallow channel for wires but I'm still figuring out what that's going to look like...
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:44 am
by serfx
love it.
glad this is working out for you.
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:57 am
by iCEByTes
looks good so far.
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:20 pm
by JamGuy
Well the red body arrived and the "original" neck (the one intended for the white body) fits this like a glove... nice and snug so I think I'm sticking to my plan of attack for the two projects. Here's a quick mock up.
A few questions about stamps... the body is stamped with a "C". I've looked on the vintage Fender info site to determine its meaning (if any). All I came up with is that it could be a neck width stamp (A,B,C) but that seems odd for a DSII as it would have likely had a B neck... did they even put larger necks on student models? The only other stamps looked to be those used for special orders and custom colors. BTW, the color in the pictures makes it look like hot rod red... it's actually much darker, dark cherry/Dakota. Any thoughts on the "C" stamp? Also there's an "04" & "02" stamped in the neck... do those have to do with production dates? None of this really matters too much but if someone knows my curiosity is killing me. (As is waiting for the lipsticks for the white project...)
I have a 30 page thesis paper to hammer out this weekend so it's unlikely I'll be diving into this very deeply between now and the middle of next week.
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:02 pm
by JamGuy
The GFS lipsticks showed up yesterday and presented a problem... first, the mounting screws they sent were not the correct screws so I ran to the hardware store and grabbed some metric screws about the same length. Unfortunately, the screw length was too short, causing the pickup to ride very high up on the guard. I need to run the hardware store again for longer p/up screws and some bridge mount screws... the bridge I found is in spanky new shape but didn't include the original screws.
