ekwatts wrote:The double 6 body is just the Marquee body. It IS huge, and shows how simply slapping a 12 string neck on a regular 6 string doesn't always work... still a great, great guitar.
This leads nicely to my next question, I have an old telecaster body pickups the lot - warmoth and the like do 12 string necks and replacement bridges, how do you think would a conversion go. Would be a cheap road to a 12 string telecaster.
there are a few videos of 12 string teles on youtube and they all sound sweet so that would be a great way to go. i think having a 12 strung version of a model you've always liked will make the experience more familiar and you'll probably gel with it better as a result.
however if u go down the warmoth route you'll end up paying more money than you think considering the finish, tuning heads etc but on paper its virtually the same as a DC12 neck so i would recommend them, plus you can choose your radius etc. there may be cheaper neck options as well though.
the gotoh 12 string tele bridge should be an exact retrofit on most teles, so it's not a lot of heavy lifting for a full conversion. however, you may want to check neck pocket dimensions. the one on my strat xii has a bigger neck heel than most
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:43 pm
by NickS
I haven't played the reissue Burns Double Six; I have a Baldwin (took over Burns in the 60s, the pickups are Burns) but I did like the idea of the 12 independent saddles to sort out intonation (and the Res-o-Tube trem on the Custom Elite).
I had the broken string spacer replaced by a brass one a couple of years ago.
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:04 pm
by George
the gotoh has separate intonation adjustment of a kind but they share the same piece of metal. they work great though and i don't see much of a problem that independent saddles could fix except for rapid on the fly changes to intonation at a gig, which i don't think is a good idea with a 12 string whatever happens
i think the main reason people like individual saddles is the look:
the stock rickenbacker bridge however, is a sin. good look intonating this 6 saddle bridge:
they have a bridge with 12 separate saddles but it costs like £200 and is only on a handful of hyper-priced models
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:23 pm
by ekwatts
Because you're paying for one of the half-arsed Rickenbacker staff to have rubbed their shitty cock on it.
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:20 pm
by bluesngrunge
ekwatts wrote:Because you're paying for one of the half-arsed Rickenbacker staff to have rubbed their shitty cock on it.
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:20 pm
by bluesngrunge
ekwatts wrote:Because you're paying for one of the half-arsed Rickenbacker staff to have rubbed their shitty cock on it.
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:25 pm
by NickS
That Gotoh bridge looks like what Burns use.
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:14 pm
by ultratwin
George wrote:
the stock rickenbacker bridge however, is a sin. good look intonating this 6 saddle bridge:
Thomann do a Rick style Harley Benton 12 String for £180:
48mm nut so should be easier to play than a real Rickenbacker. Not sure about intonation. It looks from a couple of pictures as though there are 6 intonation screws on each side of the bridge so it might have individual intonation for each string. Not 100% sure though as I can't find a detailed close up and it may just be that the bridge is on the other way around in some pictures.
that kit telecaster neck is unfinished and will also need a decent fret level, dress and crown. as long as youre up for the effort!
the thomann guitar specs says it has a tune-o-matic. these are fairly crude and dont have separate intonation. the jay turser i had had one. the saddles won't be angled to compensate either. this creates a chorusy effects right up to dissonant warbles the higher up the neck you go.
ive not seen a 12 string tune-o-matic alternative that offers separate intonation either.
also another downside of the thomann is the nut is 1.89". that's insanely wide. the dano DC12 has a 1.75" nut and that is certainly as wide as i'd want to go. unless you have incredible sausage fingers i'd be cautious.
i can't believe no uk companies are offering tele 12 string conversion necks. i've had a scan but found nothing so far. a warmoth neck finished with all the right quirks is going to cost you about £300 after shipping and tax
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:56 am
by Dave
Found that at Allparts.....spendy...
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:00 am
by George
^ very interesting! indeed expensive, and i'll also bet the bridge posts are different widths to the thomann so you'll need to buy conversion posts for about £20 as well. glad someones made one though.
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:15 am
by dezb1
BobArsecake wrote:
dezb1 wrote:Anyone tried one of these kits?
How much?
£115 delivered. I quite fancy the challenge of finishing it, I've been doing a bit of modding and repairing as a hobby over the last wee while and think this could be good fun - and for the price it might be worth a punt. I could stick the neck and bridge on my old telecaster body while I finish this one then swap over if all goes well - if not I paid £115 for the neck rather than £300 from warmoth.
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:16 am
by BearBoy
Just had a look at a some pictures of a bunch of Gibson and Gretsch 12 strings. Doesn't look as though any of them have have separate intonation for all 12 strings.
Might explain why half the 12 string demos on Youtube sound out of tune
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:29 am
by George
BearBoy wrote:Just had a look at a some pictures of a bunch of Gibson and Gretsch 12 strings. Doesn't look as though any of them have have separate intonation for all 12 strings.
Might explain why half the 12 string demos on Youtube sound out of tune
lol not sure if there's a hint of sarcasm in there but the devil is most definitely in the detail, my good man. take this video for example:
[youtube][/youtube]
he barely ever goes past 7th fret and when he does go past it isn't on the lower drone strings (E, A and D) which are the main problem areas. i saw he went past the 12 fret once and when he did it went out of tune.
and ive never seen the rick brigade do any different. in fact they tend to be worse videos by a long stretch, whereas i quite enjoyed this one.
tbh a lot of people enjoy the lack of intonation and think its "the rick sound" because it creates chorusy effects. but for me i think you need to tame that so you can get decent gain sounds going for prog leads, and do chords higher up. it's a detriment tbh and hinders the guitars uses.
take the great john mclaughlin in mahvishnu orchestra - barely ever used the 12 string neck unless in the lower registers, and it was often way out of tune. also, the same can be said for jimmys 12 string stairway parts on "song remains the same".
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:38 am
by BearBoy
Ha. Wasn't being sarcastic. A lot of the videos I've seen of 12 strings sound terrible and must put a lot of people off.
Hadn't applied your level of forensic analysis to the ones that sounds good though. Well spotted.
Just seems a weird omission on a guitar costing thousands tbh.
George wrote:tbh a lot of people enjoy it and think its "the rick sound" because it creates chorusy effects.
Think you could be right there.
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:52 am
by George
absolutely, most 12 strings will spend their life badly set up, gathering dust and not being played past the 3rd fret anyway, so why anyone would pump 2 large into that purpose (bad intonation to boot) is beyond me.
as for people enjoying the rick chrousy sound (bad intonation), i genuinely think that's a case of the "emperor has no clothes". with correct intonation there is still natural (but harmonious) chorus and also playability, but there's no point telling them that. a quick stroll around the rickenbacker forum will show you the terminal levels of dogma and hubris. they ain't changing for no one.
