AVRI Jaguar Neck question.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:13 pm

FWIW, the tech who set up my CP said its build quality was indistinguishable from AVRI to him.
He said if he were getting one now he would get a CP & change the pickups.
I disagree, since I would, and did, also change the CP tuners.

He's been working on guitars for over 30 years.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:14 pm

BacchusPaul wrote:Hmmm, yeah, I'm not convinced.

That's cool. I am not necessarily right about everything or trying to make everyone agree with me. Just throwing in my thoughts based on my experiences.

Here is an interesting link I found about MIM vs. MIA

http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?t=73845

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:19 pm

I looked, did not see the word "Jaguar". Nothing denotes quality construction like a pick shoved behind your neck pocket, leaving a huge gap, or a bunch of buzzing strings. I guess "quality" is in the eyes & ears of the beholder. Those "quality" features pertain to AVRi Jaguars, not the strats they spoke of in the link.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:30 pm

taylornutt wrote:
BacchusPaul wrote:Hmmm, yeah, I'm not convinced.
That's cool. I am not necessarily right about everything or trying to make everyone agree with me. Just throwing in my thoughts based on my experiences.

Here is an interesting link I found about MIM vs. MIA

http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?t=73845

That's cool, similarly I'm not trying to convince you that your guitar is worse than MIM or anything like that. It's great that you enjoy it.

Having said that, there's a lot of nonsense in that thread. Nonsense about wood quality, what the pickup is mounted to, the body finish and other stuff that can't be measured or proven in any way, and even if it could, wouldn't mean all that much.

Personally, I don't feel that American Fenders are worth anything like the money they command. For me to be remotely interested in playing one, they would have to be similarly priced to a Japanese instrument. The Mexican Fenders are very good, some of them are excellent. I have found that Japanese Fenders are every bit as well appointed as American Fenders, excepting maybe the pickups.

Also, have you tried the Squier Classic Vibe Strats? They feel as good as the American Fenders to me. If they aren't as good, then certainly they are close enough to shatter any idea that American Fenders are worth anything like the premium they fetch.

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:35 pm

Well they are "worth it" to the extent that American labor cannot survive in the USA on what foreign labor, living elsewhere gets paid. And they may be "worth it" subjectively, if you prefer some features that are unique to them, and can afford it.
But I would suggest that, at that stage, it may be more about preference than much that is unambiguously "superior". The different design features may be varously preferred, or not.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:39 pm

MMPicker wrote:Well they are "worth it" to the extent that American labor cannot survive in the USA on what foreign labor, living elsewhere gets paid.

So it's a matter of guitar players subsidising American workers so that labourers in other countries go out of business?

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:39 pm

Well yeah. but since my immediate neighbors are American workers, I'd rather have them employed, if I have to choose.
Not at any cost, of course. But bad things happen when people are out of work. And I care most about whether they happen near me.

Selfish guy that I am.

Post by **dots** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:40 pm

Black Cat Bone wrote:Just a note on an earlier comment: truss rod should, in my experience, be first resort way before shimming, providing that you are confident with adjusting the truss and bridge in tandem to get that certain 'balance'. If that fails hit the shims but generally unless the the neck heel depth is too small, or there's something funky with the neck pocket, or you are just missmatcing a body and neck, a shim is usually avoidable. Not sure if that's just me but experience has told me to work with what is inately a part of the guitar first even if it means a little more fiddling around with stuff.

There is something to be said for sustain from a greater break over nut and bridge and yes a shim can do this however bridge and truss can often, but not always, achieve this when sorted out. The reverse argument made by some is that you gain 'tone' and sustain by ensuring a tight wood-to-wood joint between body and neck. There is a trick where you undo the neck screws by a half turn, tune to pitch, tighten screws and re-tune to pitch. This pulls the neck and body tight together and I must admit I was impressed with the improvement in sustain at least unplugged. I've always been a bit peed off if I need to stick a bit of fag packet in my guitar to make it work properly.

i disagree completely. i would shim way before i adjusted the truss rod since it's put there for a completely different reason.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:42 pm

BacchusPaul wrote: Personally, I don't feel that American Fenders are worth anything like the money they command. For me to be remotely interested in playing one, they would have to be similarly priced to a Japanese instrument. The Mexican Fenders are very good, some of them are excellent. I have found that Japanese Fenders are every bit as well appointed as American Fenders, excepting maybe the pickups.

Also, have you tried the Squier Classic Vibe Strats? They feel as good as the American Fenders to me. If they aren't as good, then certainly they are close enough to shatter any idea that American Fenders are worth anything like the premium they fetch.

I definitely agree with you about American Fenders having overinflated prices. I like Japanese Fenders as well. I played a used Japanese Fender Paisley Strat that was awesome the other day and I am a huge fan of the Vista Series. I wish they would bring that one back.

I have a Squier Classic Vibe Duo Sonic, so I am definitely liking the Classic Vibe series. I think each Fender factory have good series of guitars from time to time.

Squier - Classic Vibe Series
Japan - Vista Series
Mexico - Classic Player

I hope to get a CP Jaguar HH and CP Baja Telecaster. I am tempted by the classic vibes and used Vista Super Sonic as well.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:46 pm

The Baja, in particular is an excellent instrument. It stuffs the Ameircan Teles I've played. Interestingly, I remember being in a shop playing one, and the manager came over, all excited and handed me the Squier CV tele. He thought it was as good as the Baja. I didn't. Different strokes, I suppose.

Also, I seen the same guy today, talking about how Melody Makers weren't real Gibsons, and how much better SG's are, because they're real Gibsons. I think there was a rich father and a spoilt son in the shop, and they were thinking about Christmas.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:51 pm

BacchusPaul wrote:The Baja, in particular is an excellent instrument. It stuffs the Ameircan Teles I've played. Interestingly, I remember being in a shop playing one, and the manager came over, all excited and handed me the Squier CV tele. He thought it was as good as the Baja. I didn't. Different strokes, I suppose.

Also, I seen the same guy today, talking about how Melody Makers weren't real Gibsons, and how much better SG's are, because they're real Gibsons. I think there was a rich father and a spoilt son in the shop, and they were thinking about Christmas.

I ran out of money so I will have to wait on the Baja. I want Mike to make me a pedal, so it maybe a while.

I love the Series and the out-of-phase options. Really cool.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:55 pm

It's definitely on the list for me. Some day...

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Black Cat Bone wrote:There is a trick where you undo the neck screws by a half turn, tune to pitch, tighten screws and re-tune to pitch. This pulls the neck and body tight together and I must admit I was impressed with the improvement in sustain at least unplugged.

I've gotta say I think that is complete placebo effect myth. I tried it anyway to see if it would work and I didn't notice any difference with my ears, I also recorded a chord ringing out before and after and they rang out for the same amount of time. There are four screws going through the neck and body of the guitar and there is micro metres of play in there, if any at all, and loosening the screws while strung up and then tightening them again is not going to "re-seat" the neck. It'll just go back to where it was.

Justin J · Post by **Justin J** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:57 pm

BacchusPaul wrote:Hmmm, yeah, I'm not convinced.

really? i've personally removed the finish from my friend's mim jazz bass. it was about a 7-piece body with a veneer top and back (it was sunburst). i don't think fender usa has done that since the '70s.
it's a great bass, but that's an obvious cost-cutting measure on wood selection.

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:59 pm

Why does that matter though? Do you honestly believe that it makes a noticeable, if any, difference to the sound?

Justin J · Post by **Justin J** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:05 pm

not at all, but saying the quality is the same is wrong.

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Why is one piece of wood better quality than a veneer?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:09 pm

Also, what date was the Jazz Bass?

Justin J · Post by **Justin J** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:17 pm

paul - '03 or '04 i think
gavin - i'm not sure how to answer that. would you feel comfortable paying fender usa prices for a guitar made out of scraps?

MMPicker · Post by **MMPicker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:17 pm

Mike wrote:
The Classic Player excels when you pile on the gain, it handles it beautiful and is a much easier guitar to play lead guitar on, I did some recording recently and used the CP for all my leads. It is easier and faster to play, it has a more defined attack and sustain with heavier sound through pedals or into an amp.

The '66 is more of an old school all rounder, of course you can play leads on it and pile on the gain, but it's going to get messy, you'll have more "behind the bridge" noise getting amplified, the curvier neck is trickier to do fast stuff with bends on, and the pickups are less defined (and much lower gain), so it can be harder to attain a good lead sound. However it is a great clean and rhythm guitar and sounds glorious when crunched up. It is also a far more subtle beast.

This makes a lot of sense to me, my own vintage guitar's neck is outstanding for rhythm, and very fast with its smaller frets, broken in neck with nearly no finish left,
but I play lead with a lot of bends and vibrato and I find the CP just plays more effortlessly, for that purpose. I switched the pickups on my CP out very fast, I regret that now, because I did not really give them much of a hearing before I did it. It sounds fine now, of course, but I can't really recall so well what it sounded like before.