Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:42 pm
hotrodperlmutter wrote:i'm thinking it's time to chip the rest of it off, and do an TELEPANK.
Page 3 of 3
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:07 pm
hell, just do a jeff beck
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:57 pm
Your post was very informative please don't apologize.desertan wrote:
Apologies for the long post, but there was a lot of information to convey, and this is good food for thought and discussion.
Do you have any experience with this product?
http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproduc ... sed+Finish
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:28 am
Yes; I tried their entire system, and although I'm sure it works well for some very respected luthiers, many of whom are local to my own shop, I was less than thrilled with the process and the amount of work it takes to get a good finish.
To compare LMI's waterborne varnish with the product that I use for clear coat varnish, which is a catalyzed urethane, solvent-based, very high solids and easy to spray:
1. LMI says it takes two days to apply. I discovered it took four, as it was still too rubbery after only 24 hours to dry-sand with 220, as they recommend. My product--which is an automotive clear coat, pricey and very, very durable--takes two days to apply, sands dry after one day, ready for second application. First applicatiion for my product is 5 wet coats; after dry-sanding four or five more coats are applied.
2. The LMI product is recommended over their epoxy filler system. I've tried to like this system, but every time I use it, it costs me lots of time to apply and sand. Epoxy isn't exactly environmentally friendly, nor is epoxy sanding dust friendly to our body. Using LMI's waterborne varnish over LMI's microballoon filler (which is what I use to fill grain) causes sinking as the finish shrinks. The combination of my urethane over LMI's filler works out just fine.
3. This waterborne stuff takes one full week to air-dry under ideal conditions of temperature and humidity. The product I use chemically catalyzes--it cures--and is wet-sandable and buffable to a hard gloss after 72 hours. You are not supposed to wet-sand the waterborne product. Additionally, my product will cure hard under less-than-ideal conditions.
Walk down any street and you'll see cars with the clearcoat blistering and peeling on their horizontal surfaces. These cars were coated with waterborne clearcoat. My own supplier explains that, although waterborne colors are a reality (and I use them on everything BUT my guitar refins), refinish shops are not happy with the state of the art in waterborne clearcoats yet.
4. You cannot apply the LMI waterborne clear coat over lacquer or urethane color coats, which makes it fine for natural wood finishes but no good for most of my work, which involves color coats under the varnish.
To compare LMI's waterborne varnish with the product that I use for clear coat varnish, which is a catalyzed urethane, solvent-based, very high solids and easy to spray:
1. LMI says it takes two days to apply. I discovered it took four, as it was still too rubbery after only 24 hours to dry-sand with 220, as they recommend. My product--which is an automotive clear coat, pricey and very, very durable--takes two days to apply, sands dry after one day, ready for second application. First applicatiion for my product is 5 wet coats; after dry-sanding four or five more coats are applied.
2. The LMI product is recommended over their epoxy filler system. I've tried to like this system, but every time I use it, it costs me lots of time to apply and sand. Epoxy isn't exactly environmentally friendly, nor is epoxy sanding dust friendly to our body. Using LMI's waterborne varnish over LMI's microballoon filler (which is what I use to fill grain) causes sinking as the finish shrinks. The combination of my urethane over LMI's filler works out just fine.
3. This waterborne stuff takes one full week to air-dry under ideal conditions of temperature and humidity. The product I use chemically catalyzes--it cures--and is wet-sandable and buffable to a hard gloss after 72 hours. You are not supposed to wet-sand the waterborne product. Additionally, my product will cure hard under less-than-ideal conditions.
Walk down any street and you'll see cars with the clearcoat blistering and peeling on their horizontal surfaces. These cars were coated with waterborne clearcoat. My own supplier explains that, although waterborne colors are a reality (and I use them on everything BUT my guitar refins), refinish shops are not happy with the state of the art in waterborne clearcoats yet.
4. You cannot apply the LMI waterborne clear coat over lacquer or urethane color coats, which makes it fine for natural wood finishes but no good for most of my work, which involves color coats under the varnish.