NGD 1965 MusicMaster II Updated pics guard removed!!!!

deltaboy72076 · Post by **deltaboy72076** » Sun May 22, 2011 2:40 pm

Ok guys, got the guard off and snapped some pics. Could find no stamps or anything under the guard or in the neck pocket. It has all been painted over. Appears to have the original copper shielding plates. Several spots of Daphne Blue paint are visible, especially under the neck plate. Also seems to have a yellow colored dye or something visible in the neck pocket. I sanded threw the black in a few spots and it has Daphne blue under the black except under the tummy relief which is grey primer. So evidently, whoever painted it black must have added the tummy relief. Again there is no forearm relief.

The numbers on the pots is 70-2125-0034 and there is another number... 6534 Sorry for size but I don't know how to resize the pics!

kypdurron · Post by **kypdurron** » Sun May 22, 2011 4:08 pm

uh, one pic that shows all the routings might have been more useful ... on some pics I can only guess what they're showing

but what's oroginal of the wiring is def older and the routing is factory or at least a pro job I'd say. Afaik they used the same bodies for Duo IIs and MM IIs in the 60s, so that would be all right. but still, the contours don't fit. mystery body.

but this

► Show Spoiler

is definitely not a 60s Fender pickup. It looks like a current or 90s one from a budget series or maybe an Am. Standard Strat pickup.

Pacafeliz · Post by **Pacafeliz** » Sun May 22, 2011 4:14 pm

yep, the pots make it a 1965... nice!

i'm sure there must be a way to remove that black color.
whatcha gonna do?

Pat.

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:47 pm

Well, that's generally GOOD news!

The pots: 70-2125-0034 is a part number; the date code is the OTHER number (6534). There's probably a manufacturer code right in front of that (137-6534 or 304-6534; 137 is CTS, 304 is Stackpole), but it might be covered by solder and not visible. Anyway, that's all as it should be for a '65.

The paint underneath is also a good sign. "Daphne" blue (again, Fender just called it "blue" on the student models back then) is a period correct original color on a '65 Musicmaster II. Since the tummy cut is NON standard, you wouldn't expect to see any paint there, and the fact that you don't (and only see grey primer) suggests that it was indeed added by someone else later.

Those routings are all Fender factory routes - I'd bet money on it. The shapes are too perfect. Also, those shielding plates are also standard Fender in terms or their composition, shape, mounting methods, etc.

The neck is, as I strongly suspected, a "slab board" - again, that's consistent with September of '65.

However, all is NOT good news... the neck pickup is not a standard Musicmaster pickup from the mid 60s. The wires should be cloth-covered, as with the rest of the guitar's wiring. And that's not a grey fiber bottom - it's plastic. It actually looks like a modern reissue pickup. A stock pickup should look like the one in this ebay auction (NOT mine):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1966-Fender ... 588cf23ff8

But that's a minor point. You can always buy a used vintage pickup and replace it if it's that important to you. The rest of the guitar is looking more and more like a slightly modified (tummy cut, pickup and one tuner) '65. Congratulations!

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Sun May 22, 2011 8:02 pm

deltaboy72076 wrote:
First i'm gonna redo the body Dakota red. I 'm gonna add the DuoSonic pearl guard i have so i can get the neck pup hooked up. It already has the switches wired up in it. Gonna adda pickup cover for the neck pickup. Im gonna leave the fender lace custom pup in the bridge. I'm also gonna try to find a slotted tuner post to replace the non original non slotted tuner post. May replace the neck pup if its not the original one and/or i don't like it.

So basically i'm gonna turn it into a Dakota Red 65 DuoSonic II.

It's already been refinished once, so you might as well refinish it in whatever color you prefer. The neck's stock, so I would strongly suggest you do NOT refinish that! I do agree that replacing the one non-original tuner would be a good idea. As far as the pickups, go with whatever sounds good to you. The reissue Mustang pickups don't sound bad IMO, but YMMV. If you get a cover for that pickup, I'd go with white - just so it will somewhat match the Lace Sensor in terms of looks.

deltaboy72076 · Post by **deltaboy72076** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:44 pm

Thanks for all the help and information guys. As far as the pickup goes I may find an original but to be honest, I hooked it back up and disconnected the bridge pup and it sounds awfully good. I believe i'll refinish it, either in Daphne blue or Dakota red. I'm not gonna touch the neck. I do have a question about the refinish. Should I strip it or just use the black as a base coat and work with that?

serfx · Post by **serfx** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:35 am

strip it.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:49 am

Definitely strip it all the way back to wood and start over. You don't want old finishes messing up the new one.

www.reranch.com

Phil O'Keefe · Post by **Phil O'Keefe** » Mon May 23, 2011 11:52 pm

I'd strip it down.

Any imperfections in the surface will be magnified once you get new paint on there and it dries. You want to get any dings filled and sanded completely smooth (200 then 400 then at least down to 600 grit) before primer and paint. I used BIN shellac as my primer on all three refinishes I did last year, and I was happy with the results. The Guitar ReRanch nitrocellulose lacquer sticks to it great, and the color coats will "cover" a lot easier when going over a white primer than they would over black. You could prime over the current color if you want, but again, if there are any dings, ripples, dents, deep scratches or other imperfections, you WILL see them in the final finish... so IMO, it's better to do it right - get it stripped, smooth and prepped before applying the new primer and paint. There's a thread over in the Guitar Projects forum here on Shortscale where I went into some of how I did my refinishes, as well as advice from a lot of other people - I'd head over there and ask around for some advice and suggestions if you're new to refinishing.

deltaboy72076 · Post by **deltaboy72076** » Tue May 24, 2011 11:07 pm

Thanks to everyone for the info and help and a special thanks to Phil who obviously has a lot of valuable knowledge on these great old guitars!! I have decided to strip and refinish the body using mainly Reranch supplies so it will have a correct nitro finish. Haven't decided on the color but it will either be Daphne blue or Dakota red. I'm not going to touch the neck except for fixing the one replaced tuner post. I was going to DuoSonic the guitar but i believe I will find another guard and an original neck pickup and take it back to just the neck pup since its real close to original as it is.

It may be a while before I get started because since I got it I can't put it down so I don't think I could stand havng it out of commission for that long right now! LOL!! When I do i will document it over in the projects section of the forum. Maybe when I get 50 posts so I can get into the classifieds I can find an original pickup and pearl guard!!

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Tue May 24, 2011 11:23 pm

deltaboy72076 wrote:Maybe when I get 50 posts so I can get into the classifieds I can find an original pickup and pearl guard!!

there's nothing there at the moment, ebay's your best bet for that stuff.